The Deal We Should Have Done

[Lipoli390]

I'm still hoping (and assuming) that Flip will deal Love to the Cavs for a package that includes Andrew Wiggins. If, however, we end up with Love at the beginning of the season or end up getting a Klay a Thompson package for Love, then I'd say we should have taken the Bulls deal that was reportedly on the table just before the draft.

You may recall it was widely reported that the Bulls offered Taj Gibson, Tony Snell and both their first round picks. As we know, the Bulls converted those two picks into McDermott who has looked tremendous in Summer League. And as we've seen, Snell has has also had a superb Summer League. Snell, Gibson and McDermott in the rotation with Ricky, Pekovic, Dieng, Shabazz, Kevin Martin and LaVine. Darn good and definitely a lot better than what we'd have after Love's departure as a free agent next summer.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I didn't like that offer when it got reported and I still don't like it now, but I see where you're coming from. Snell doesn't interest me even with his hot shooting in SL. I also don't know if Flip would have traded two-for-one in the draft. I could easily see him doing just what Denver did by taking an NBA ready guy + Euro stash. I think Flip has played this Love process out perfectly, though, and we're going to get Wiggins ++.

Keep in mind there are two significant chances to trade Love now: trade deadline, next off-season via S/T.

[bleedspeed]

I wonder if we can still deal with the Bulls. They are loaded at PF and are light at Wing. We will be the opposite if the trade with the Cavs goes down. Kevin Martin for Gibson type deal would help both teams. Maybe Thibs could want LRMM and he could make him work there.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Cam, I agree with you that Flip seems to be playing his poker hand expertly. With LBJ reaching out to Love, a deal involving Wiggins seems likely, and despite my appreciation for McDernott's game, I like a Wiggins-centric deal better than the Chicago deal.

Lip, your first paragraph is a little too safe for me, and I want to get you on the record (because that's what we do here :) ). Your headline seems to see unequivocally that Flip should have taken the Bulls offer, but your first paragraph leaves some doubt as to whether you prefer it to a Wiggins deal. It seems like you're reserving the right to rip Flip if the Wiggins deal doesn't happen by using hindsight to say he missed the boat on the Bulls deal.

I call foul! Which deal do you like better right now? If you like a Wiggins deal better, then your headline is inaccurate and you lose the right to criticize Flip if it doesn't happen (since you have stated that it is likely to happen). But if you think the Bulls' deal is better regardless, then go on the record here, so it can become a discussion topic. I think making that definitive statement is the only way you can later say that Flip screwed up.

By the way, the Bulls offer you cite is one of the few that I think actually happened, so this is a good topic. Chad Ford sounded fairly convincing when he broke the news, although he did have it ranked third behind deals he thought Boston and GS would eventually offer.

[Lipoli390]

Long -- How dare you put me on the spot!! :). The title was meant to be provocative. The first paragraph expresses my view that the Cavs deal, getting us Wiggins, Bennett and either Thompson or Waiters would be much better and seems like it will happen. You can quote me on that down the road when I criticize Flip. :).

How we ultimately judge Flip on all this once the dust has settled in a interesting question. All of us are ultimately judged in our professional lives primarily by hindsight with some mitigation based on circumstances. It's a results oriented world for all of us and that's particularly true for those who run a professional sports team. If we end up with one of the possible Wiggins deals we've been discussing, you could argue that Flip simply got lucky since he couldn't have known when he turned other deals down before the draft that LeBron would eventually go back to Cleveland a few weeks later, making a Wiggins deal possible. Yet, hindsight is a two-way street. We are criticized and held accountable when hindsight reveals our mistakes, but we should similarly be praised and rewarded when hindsight reveals success. So I will give Flip full credit and praise if the Cleveland deal happens, but criticize him if it doesn't. At the same time, I will tempor my criticism based on the lack of information we have about what deals were actually doable before the draft.

As I reflect right now, I give Flip credit for his patience. It's not easy to show his level of patience and resolve under the circumstances he faces - circumstances largely created by his predecessor. The question for Flip is and always has been how far he should push. We all know the phrase, "pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered." There is great wisdom in that phrase for anyone involved in negotiations -- i.e., don't get greedy. I've negotiated a lot of deals over the years and have learned that lesson first hand. I don't know enough of the details to know whether Flip has overplayed his hand. That remains to be seen and we may never know. But so far, I can't criticize Flip and he may be close to hitting a home run in these Love talks.

When this is all done, I'm going to share some things I know but can't repeat right now. Nothing earth-shattering, but interesting information that I believe reflects positively on Flip. The one thing I'll repeat right now is what I've mentioned before. That is, Flip is very serious about keeping Love if he doesn't get the deal he wants and he has a very high standard for the sort of deal he'd consider acceptable.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Excellent reply, lip.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

You can't say we would have ended up with McBuckets with the picks because they ended up trading to get McBuckets. There's no guarantee we get the same deal from Denver. Payne would have been taken 1 spot higher than us and we probably would have ended up with Hood/Young and a Euro-prospect with those picks.

[Lipoli390]

You can't say we would have ended up with McBuckets with the picks because they ended up trading to get McBuckets. There's no guarantee we get the same deal from Denver. Payne would have been taken 1 spot higher than us and we probably would have ended up with Hood/Young and a Euro-prospect with those picks.

Kahns -- I agree we can't know what a Flip would have done with those picks. I can tell you Flip liked McDermott so I can see him doing a deal like the one the Bulls did, but I can't say for sure.

[Monster]

Sorry Lip I'm really not that familiar. With the. Pigs Hogs saying therefore I must dismiss your entire post. Lol

I saw and still see the Bulls trade as settling for sort of a nice quatity of quality assets of which likely don't get us anything to truely build around. In addition you can only have so many roster spots and so many minutes for young players. I wouldn't hate that deal but I think it could end up not gettiing the team closer to contending which is what this board and others have basically have been screaming about via keyboards. Lol It seems unlikely a Love for Wiggins deal doesn't get done unless Flip asks for the moon and Lebron says no. Lol

I'll add a thought here about Klay. If its true he is really a true 2-way player (I'm not really sure about his defense) then how is he not worth a max contract? Wouldn't that make him nearly as valuable as say Harden who is widely ripped for being terrible on D? I believe some people sell Klay a little short but I get why in the context for a Love trade. The reason is we ask the question: Is he a guy to build around? Maybe not and I think that's what people don't like about the deal is it keeps the wolves from having that guy but I don't think paying him a max (assuming his D is pretty good) is the problem its that he likely isn't a star. Do people see what I am saying?

In theory Wiggins has star potential and that's why many of us want him but that's no sure thing. Its a swing for something that you probably have to take in the league because its rare to win a championship without a star. The Pistons were the closest I can think about in my lifetime but Ben Wallace was sort of a unique star and that team was loaded with very good players. I could see a team Led by Rubio in a Ben Wallace role leading a team of 6 other all-star type talents to a possible championship but good luck finding that many players on one team at once like that Pistons team.

Sorry this post got off on a lot of topics but I do think it speaks to Lip's OP.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I preferred the Chicago deal all along, but not quite the one mentioned above. Gibson + Butler + McBuckets and/or Mirotic would have been a solid deal. But I don't see Chicago in the picture anymore with Gasol on board. They are the favorites in the East at this point IMO.