Defensive rating now in the bottom half of the league

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

One of the results from last night's game is that our defensive rating has now fallen into the bottom half of the league (#17 or #18 depending on your source). That is the result of some really lackluster defensive performances during this home stand.

I think we're starting to see the effects of taking Prince out of the starting lineup as well as just a general lack of paying attention to details.

I don't have a proposed solution, but it's just disappointing to see. I can understand going into a Western Conference opposing gym on the 2nd night of a back-to-back and giving up a lot of points. But we've been a well rested and healthy team throughout this home stand. If Mitchell is trying to build a defensive identity for this squad, that effort has taken a major hit at a time they should have been totally locked in.

[Carlos Danger]

Interesting. Thanks for posting. We are still much improved from last year. And I think last night's game added to a still relatively small sample size might make things look worse than they actually are at this moment. I think Towns has been the biggest improvement for the team defense beyond whatever Prince/KG have offered. And of course a healthy Rubio helps as well (pause for Rubio haters to chime in)....

[Hicks123 [enjin:6700838]]

How can that be....we have plus defenders in Rubio, Wiggins, KG, Prince, Towns?

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

How can that be....we have plus defenders in Rubio, Wiggins, KG, Prince, Towns?

Those guys are plus defenders, I believe. But the answer is easy, and Q suggested the answer above. Sam was frustrated with the way our team was producing out of the gate, and inserted Martin in the lineup for Prince...our first quarters have been entirely different since he made that move. I got to my seat 6 minutes into the first quarter and the score was already 20-18 or something like that! Martin won the game for us last night, but he just isn't a starter in this league anymore and kind much more value coming off the bench. Sam needs to go back to the starting lineup he was using when our defensive numbers were so good.

[Hicks123 [enjin:6700838]]

How can that be....we have plus defenders in Rubio, Wiggins, KG, Prince, Towns?

Those guys are plus defenders, I believe. But the answer is easy, and Q suggested the answer above. Sam was frustrated with the way our team was producing out of the gate, and inserted Martin in the lineup for Prince...our first quarters have been entirely different since he made that move. I got to my seat 6 minutes into the first quarter and the score was already 20-18 or something like that! Martin won the game for us last night, but he just isn't a starter in this league anymore and kind much more value coming off the bench. Sam needs to go back to the starting lineup he was using when our defensive numbers were so good.

But we are 4-4 in games since Sam made that switch. Now, I don't believe it was Martin that drove us to a .500 record during that time, but I also am very skeptical of Prince's impact to the game. And are we sure we are worse off after Q1 since change? The only tool I found that shows says we are +3 over the past 3 games. Can't figure out how to review last 8 games. So while defense might give, that little nugget may show that our offense picked up more than enough to offset. Wish I could see all 8 games.

[Lipoli390]

How can that be....we have plus defenders in Rubio, Wiggins, KG, Prince, Towns?

Those guys are plus defenders, I believe. But the answer is easy, and Q suggested the answer above. Sam was frustrated with the way our team was producing out of the gate, and inserted Martin in the lineup for Prince...our first quarters have been entirely different since he made that move. I got to my seat 6 minutes into the first quarter and the score was already 20-18 or something like that! Martin won the game for us last night, but he just isn't a starter in this league anymore and kind much more value coming off the bench. Sam needs to go back to the starting lineup he was using when our defensive numbers were so good.

Interesting, LST. I'd propose as a middle ground that Sam replace Martin with LaVine. I see Zach as a better defender than Martin (although not as good as Prince), and a much better offensive player than Prince. Of course, that would mean making Andre Miller the second unit's PG, which is not conducive to defense especially if he's paired with Martin in the backcourt and Bazz at SF. But at least those guys would be going up against the opposing team's second unit. And I like what I've seen so far this season from Bazz on the defensive end.

[AbeVigodaLive]

How can that be....we have plus defenders in Rubio, Wiggins, KG, Prince, Towns?

Those guys are plus defenders, I believe. But the answer is easy, and Q suggested the answer above. Sam was frustrated with the way our team was producing out of the gate, and inserted Martin in the lineup for Prince...our first quarters have been entirely different since he made that move. I got to my seat 6 minutes into the first quarter and the score was already 20-18 or something like that! Martin won the game for us last night, but he just isn't a starter in this league anymore and kind much more value coming off the bench. Sam needs to go back to the starting lineup he was using when our defensive numbers were so good.

Interesting, LST. I'd propose as a middle ground that Sam replace Martin with LaVine. I see Zach as a better defender than Martin (although not as good as Prince), and a much better offensive player than Prince. Of course, that would mean making Andre Miller the second unit's PG, which is not conducive to defense especially if he's paired with Martin in the backcourt and Bazz at SF. But at least those guys would be going up against the opposing team's second unit. And I like what I've seen so far this season from Bazz on the defensive end.

The stats with Wiggins, LaVine and Rubio on the court together were pretty crazy...

Something like + 38 in 60 minutes or something like that. I'd think most Wolves want to see more of it considering those guys are the ball handling future of the club. Let's get it going...

[Monster]

The defense has been trending down but some of that was without Rubio or when he was playing he didn't look healthy. I'll take the long view and see how it plays out. I've been watching Martin on D and he is no Prince but he isn't as bad as people are assuming because of the reputation he is earned.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the scheme/concepts the Wolves are employing this year? I am hoping someone with more advanced knowledge can maybe break that down. Cool?

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

How can that be....we have plus defenders in Rubio, Wiggins, KG, Prince, Towns?

Those guys are plus defenders, I believe. But the answer is easy, and Q suggested the answer above. Sam was frustrated with the way our team was producing out of the gate, and inserted Martin in the lineup for Prince...our first quarters have been entirely different since he made that move. I got to my seat 6 minutes into the first quarter and the score was already 20-18 or something like that! Martin won the game for us last night, but he just isn't a starter in this league anymore and kind much more value coming off the bench. Sam needs to go back to the starting lineup he was using when our defensive numbers were so good.

Interesting, LST. I'd propose as a middle ground that Sam replace Martin with LaVine. I see Zach as a better defender than Martin (although not as good as Prince), and a much better offensive player than Prince. Of course, that would mean making Andre Miller the second unit's PG, which is not conducive to defense especially if he's paired with Martin in the backcourt and Bazz at SF. But at least those guys would be going up against the opposing team's second unit. And I like what I've seen so far this season from Bazz on the defensive end.

That is certainly the prevailing opinion in Wolvesland, Lip, and I'm not totally opposed to it. While I prefer Zach at PG because he is so ball-dominant when he is on the court (his propensity to want the ball in his hands sometimes negates Ricky's offensive value in my opinion), my opinion about Zach's game is much higher than it was last year and I think he can become something special regardless of what position he is playing...the improvement in his overall game year over year is extraordinary. My biggest issue with moving Zach away from the backup PG position is what it does to our team defense since we don't really have a defensive answer at PG behind Ricky. I believe that defense starts at the PG position...if the PG can prevent penetration, it's much easier for his teammates to stay in their roles and prevent open looks. I love Andre Miller...always have...but I don't like the way our defense looks when he is out there. His inability to stay in front of his man forces his teammates to have to compensate and frantically rotate, and too often results in wide open threes for the other team. I have had enough of that watching the Rubio-less Wolves defense the past few years, and while Zach is no Rubio defensively, our defense looked much better with him at the point rather than Andre. That's why I prefer Zach backing up Ricky and Prince back in the starting lineup playing with KG, Ricky and the young studs.

BTW, I share your opinion about the defensive improvement in Shabazz Muhammad. While I sometimes questioned his defensive effort while he was at UCLA, I have never questioned it in the pros...he works hard. But sometimes he looks lost out there. Much better this year though. We joke here about the "mentorship" angle, but I wonder if Tay has had an impact on Bazz's defensive improvement. My son and I were marveling last game at Tay's ability to not bite on fakes but rather maintain a great defensive posture, and that's one area where Bazz has improved. He still has a long way to go and still is a poor distributor, but the combination of his potent offense and improved defensive rebounding and overall defense makes him a valuable component of this team going forward.

[Leado01]

There are factors beyond who's on the court that effect defensive effectiveness.

#1. During those first few weeks of the season - team's offenses were still working things out. They weren't "in mid season form."

#2. No one had seen this defense. Teams that live on pick and roll learned that we defend pick and roll very very well and have reduced the amount of pick and roll they run against us.

#3. Those early weeks were loaded with eastern conference games!!!