Something to keep in mind about Payne

[Bayou Wolf [enjin:6635650]]

I am excited about his potential and about how KG could mentor him. I think it's important to remember that he only played about 3 minutes total for Atlanta before getting traded to us. Effectively, he is in the very beginning of his rookie season where you would expect a lot of mistakes. I think patience with him will be rewarded, don't get down on him for early problems. I love his energy.

[bleedspeed]

I agree. I am not worried about the mistakes at this point. I like the energy and bounce. I don't like his age, but I am more worried about Dieng at this point. I think the guy we are seeing is much closer to a finished product then we hoped we would see.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Payne is going to be just fine...the kind of guy you want to have on your team. Not an enormous upside and certainly there will be some early rookie season issues as Bayou suggests, but I sense he will be a nice contributor for several years.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Still a long ways to go. His defense is not up to par for an Izzo product. If there's one thing I wish Payne would grasp, it's to STAY ON YOUR FEET. His P&R defense is also not as good as hyped to be. To this point he's caught out of position more often than not. And I still can't get Taj Gibson abusing him in the post out of my head. Offensively, he's forcing the issue too much for my liking. Play within Ricky's flow of the game and convert those looks (only seen him convert two jumpers so far; yikes). I hope that's just him looking to prove himself on a new team and because of the trade. I could see that.

Things he's done well: play with energy and grab rebounds. He's also been surprising in the blocked shots area, but man, he jumps for everything. I like the energy the most, though. Doesn't seem to give up on plays. Another good thing, he seems able to finish with both hands. That's an absolute must for a big, in my opinion.

[Tactical unit]

Still a long ways to go. His defense is not up to par for an Izzo product. If there's one thing I wish Payne would grasp, it's to STAY ON YOUR FEET. His P&R defense is also not as good as hyped to be. To this point he's caught out of position more often than not. And I still can't get Taj Gibson abusing him in the post out of my head. Offensively, he's forcing the issue too much for my liking. Play within Ricky's flow of the game and convert those looks (only seen him convert two jumpers so far; yikes). I hope that's just him looking to prove himself on a new team and because of the trade. I could see that.

Things he's done well: play with energy and grab rebounds. He's also been surprising in the blocked shots area, but man, he jumps for everything. I like the energy the most, though. Doesn't seem to give up on plays. Another good thing, he seems able to finish with both hands. That's an absolute must for a big, in my opinion.

Thanks for saving me the time, you nailed it! Everyone remembers his nice block and likes that he can grab rebounds and thinks he's pretty good at D. He's not a good defender at all though he is frequently lost, out of position, doesn't play well in weak side defense or over commits when he does help going all out for the block. His offense has highlight moments but the majority of the time he takes the flow out of the offense and goes one on one when he's not all that dominant at this point in his career. The other thing I'd like to point out is that he does have considerable upside to be much more than a role player he could develop into an athletic pick and pop big with the chance to shoot the three really well and become a dominant defender. However with him being an older prospect you really have to wonder if he will ever understand defensive positioning and be able to better handle being backed down in the post.

[Coolbreeze44]

Have to be careful not to make judgments on a guy just getting his feet wet. Some of us (you) did that with Wiggins after 20 games, and this guy has played less than 10. But if I were a betting man (which I am), I would think he will be just fine. I'd even go so far as to say he will live up to his draft position. I really like his competitiveness and physical gifts. Much like Zach, I think there is a basketball player in there.

[alexftbl8181 [enjin:6648741]]

I am excited about his potential and about how KG could mentor him. I think it's important to remember that he only played about 3 minutes total for Atlanta before getting traded to us. Effectively, he is in the very beginning of his rookie season where you would expect a lot of mistakes. I think patience with him will be rewarded, don't get down on him for early problems. I love his energy.

I have a feeling that "mentoring a player" is going to be my latest hated cliche phrase next to "protecting the rim" and "making teammates better"

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Have to be careful not to make judgments on a guy just getting his feet wet. Some of us (you) did that with Wiggins after 20 games, and this guy has played less than 10. But if I were a betting man (which I am), I would think he will be just fine. I'd even go so far as to say he will live up to his draft position. I really like his competitiveness and physical gifts. Much like Zach, I think there is a basketball player in there.

What I said about Wiggins then was true and what I'm saying about Payne now is true. And I'd like to make it clear to you that my biggest concern with Wiggins was that he wasn't attacking, more specifically he wasn't attacking the painted area. Why has his scoring numbers been increased since that thread? He's been doing exactly what I (and plenty others) said was necessary. Putting his head down and making a concerned effort to get to the rim; get to the FT line. At the time of the Wiggins thread, he was settling for jumpers far too often. He's balanced out pretty well. Now we're all happy.

And just in case you or others missed what I began my post with, I said Payne still has a long ways to go. That would go to show that I don't think he's a final product yet. I don't see the upside in him like so many others on here, though. Quality big off the bench is what I'm hoping for and I don't see him exceeding that with all things accounted for.

Payne's 24. LaVine's 19. Five years difference in basketball development there. They're not the same situation at all in my eyes. LaVine was a raw one-and-done player who at UCLA didn't get big minutes consistently. Payne was a four year layer, two year starter at MSU. I see LaVine with star potential (who knows if he'll reach it) and Payne with starter potential at very best. Even then I think that's a stretch. Does anyone really think he's the long term answer?

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Cool - Payne only has about 10 games to prove what he can do before Cam deems him a decent player or bust. He can always peg them pretty quickly and move on if they don't play well seeing little chance at improvement.

[Coolbreeze44]

Cool - Payne only has about 10 games to prove what he can do before Cam deems him a decent player or bust. He can always peg them pretty quickly and move on if they don't play well seeing little chance at improvement.

And regarding Wiggins, like many of us thought, the intention was to bitch about him but straddle both sides of the fence so that he can make the statements above. That was pointed out at the time, and has proven true now.