Skill/Rotation Issues

[SameOldNudityDrew]

Now that the dust has settled, I'm interested to see how this team comes together on the floor. This whole Jimmy thing has made it clear the big question is how the team culture comes together moving forward--and I'm optimistic there. But I'm only interested here in how the team will play together on the floor.

We've definitely picked up some outside shooting, but given up a very good ball handler, as some have pointed out. I hope this doesn't mean letting Wiggins put the ball on the deck more, and I also don't think Rose should keep dribbling as much as he already does. I could see Okogie stepping up a bit here, Saric is a halfway decent ballhandler and a solid passer, but I don't want him taking more than a few dribbles at a time. Hopefully, this will force Thibs to go away from the iso-heavy offense he's been using as some speculated. Still, with Tolliver, Covington, Saric, and Towns, we have good outside shooting from our bigs, so a quick ball handler like Teague should find the floor even more open for penetration. I've never been a huge Teague fan, but I hope he gets back soon. We really need his ball handling now.

We also traded a wing for two forwards. We arguably have three PFs who all deserve minutes, though none is a star. If Thibs were even a little bit thoughtful and flexible with rotations, this should be the sort of thing we might be able to deal with by playing more Taj at the 5 a bit and maybe Saric and Tolliver at the 3 a bit, while sliding Okogie down to the 2. But Thibs is neither creative nor flexible. He usually sticks with a 9 man rotation. Somebody, probably a legit forward, is about to lose minutes. The impact might not be so bad until Teague is back, but when he does, somebody used to playing NBA games is probably getting dropped from the rotation.

Teague/Tyus
Wiggins/Rose/Williams
Covington/Okogie/Nunnally/KBD
Taj/Saric/Tolliver/Deng
KAT/Dieng

[Leado01]

This move could put Okogie on the floor more than initially planned (by Thibs) which is good.

Tyus could end up with less minutes (also good), and Taj's minutes will likely decrease.

Would love to see Wiggins minutes limited (32?) so we could get greater intensity, which I do think he would bring if he was getting the minutes he got his first couple of years.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

After the first game, I wonder if the rest of you guys are as worried about this issue. Thibs played Okogie less than 20 minutes and Tolliver not at all, while tapping Covington for more than 40, all on a night when Rose didn't play at all.

Thibs is such a terrible rotation manager. Just the worst.

In an ideal world, I'd like to see our minutes distribution by position look like this. The key change is sliding Taj down to the 5 a lot to make room for Saric and Tolliver. Against more traditional centers, we'd obviously have to play Gorgui instead of Taj at the 5 when KAT's not on the floor, but I think he's got the strength, base, and boxing out fundamentals, and there are enough smaller 5s in the league that I think he could match up for 14 minutes at that position each game on average. The hard decision is to sit Tyus, but Rose is playing so well right now, we should ride that train until the wheels fall off (which could sadly be soon).

Teague (30)/Rose (18)
Wiggins (32)/Okogie (16)
Covington (32)/Okogie (8 )/Tolliver (8 )
Taj (6)/Saric (30)/Tolliver (12)
KAT (34)/Taj (14)

Balancing out those rotations, you could always have a blend of offense and defense, plus some ball handling and outside shooting.

[Duke13]

After the first game, I wonder if the rest of you guys are as worried about this issue. Thibs played Okogie less than 20 minutes and Tolliver not at all, while tapping Covington for more than 40, all on a night when Rose didn't play at all.

Thibs is such a terrible rotation manager. Just the worst.

In an ideal world, I'd like to see our minutes distribution by position look like this. The key change is sliding Taj down to the 5 a lot to make room for Saric and Tolliver. Against more traditional centers, we'd obviously have to play Gorgui instead of Taj at the 5 when KAT's not on the floor, but I think he's got the strength, base, and boxing out fundamentals, and there are enough smaller 5s in the league that I think he could match up for 14 minutes at that position each game on average. The hard decision is to sit Tyus, but Rose is playing so well right now, we should ride that train until the wheels fall off (which could sadly be soon).

Teague (30)/Rose (18)
Wiggins (32)/Okogie (16)
Covington (32)/Okogie (8 )/Tolliver (8 )
Taj (6)/Saric (30)/Tolliver (12)
KAT (34)/Taj (14)

Balancing out those rotations, you could always have a blend of offense and defense, plus some ball handling and outside shooting.

I like the minutes distribution, only thing I'd change is Tolliver's minutes at the 3. Wouldn't give him any there. Slide Wig down there and play Tyus a bit will Rose. Tolliver can't play the three, but I think Tolliver's shooting needs to be utilized so I still favor him in the rotation. I like that you have Gorgui out of it.

[thedoper]

I think Thibs is feeling out Saric a bit. I think once he gets more comfortable fitting him in the ball will start rolling between the 3/4 rotations. Roco shouldn't play 40+ and Saric should play more but I'll give it 5-10 games.

[kekgeek]

I think Thibs is feeling out Saric a bit. I think once he gets more comfortable fitting him in the ball will start rolling between the 3/4 rotations. Roco shouldn't play 40+ and Saric should play more but I'll give it 5-10 games.

I agree with that. You could tell in the 2nd half Saric reallly didn't know where to go and didn't have plays down. What is totally expected. It will come

[BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520]]

I won't fault Thibs rotations either from last night with the new guys, but I really hope nobody sees over 35+ regulatory anymore. We have a deep team, not top heavy, but 9 deep for sure.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

This is a complex issue, and it will be interesting to see how Thibs deals with it. I don't remember the Wolves ever having so much reliable depth, and I hope Thibs recognizes that too. I mentioned in another thread that Saric and Covington both averaged over 30 MPG with a 52-win team, and there's no reason they shouldn't with us. That said, I understand why Thibs might have been reluctant to play Saric after not practicing with the team.

Minutes distribution will depend on how Thibs looks at the position of his players. Can Rose play SG, leaving room for Tyus? Is Taj or Gorgui a better fit backing up KAT at center. Is Saric locked into playing the 4, or can Thibs give him some minutes at the 3? Tolliver and Jones would be my big minutes loser in my rotations, even though I like both of them...especially Tyus. Assuming no injuries, here is how I would roughly divide the minutes.
Center: KAT(35) Gorgui (10)Taj(3)
PF: Taj (27) Dario(21)
SF: RoCo(35) Dario(9) Wig (4)
SG:Wig(31) Okogie(17)
PG: Teague(24) Rose(24)

Tyus and Tolliver are first guys into the mix if a PG or a big sits out a game. Nobody plays more than 35 MPG except on rare occasions when absolutely necessary.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

LST, your post is a good one and it illustrates some questions Thibs and the staff need to ask themselves, but I can't seem to agree with your rotation much. That's just not enough minutes allocated for your best players. You'll lose games that could have otherwise been won had you just played your best players more. That's what they're paid to do.

I also think splitting 48 minutes at point guard right down the middle is absurd based on what I think Teague is capable of and what he's been his entire career. Rose has played well this year, but he needs to be kept on a leash. 15-18 minutes most nights would be ideal for him and his body.

You also know I don't agree with the premise of Saric at the 3 at all. I think that's not a good look any way you slice it because it makes him a likely liability on defense and it takes away some of the advantages he has on offense. He's a fairly mobile big but that advantage is reduced with a wing guarding him on the perimeter.

Lastly, I think this team would be best to keep Dieng on the bench and out of the rotation. He's just not adequate on either end of the floor and outside of his salary, there's no justified reason to play him.

[Lipoli390]

I want to see Saric get 30-32 minutes, KAT 35-37, and Okogie at least 20-25. Other than that, I'm not wed to any particular allocation of minutes.