Game Report - Wolves v. Pistons

[Lipoli390]

Terrible loss tonight. I'll start with this point. Our defense wasn't bad except for Teague's complete inability to even slow much less stop Reggie Jackson. But the Wolves are not going to win games scoring 97 points. As I've said many times, our roster is built to score. Unfortunately, our coaching staff obviously hasn't designed an offense to take full advantage of the roster. Instead, the Wolves offense is an anachronism of slow, isolation basketball. That's been the case all season, even in victory, and it was painfully apparent tonight's loss.

Time and again, Teague brought the ball up ever so slowly and then, once near the top of the key, he continued to dribble incessantly with little movement and ever so few screens set round him. Butler wasn't much better with the ball, except that he was more lively, aggressive and successful scoring off the dribble. So yes, Teague was absolutely horrible tonight running the offense. But it wasn't just Teague and it wasn't just tonight. If what Teague was doing is not what Thibs wanted, then Thibs wouldn't have left him in there the way he did tonight.

The Wolves obviously self-destructed with turnovers, but the turnovers themselves were a direct result of our slow pace and lack of player movement. There was no rhyme or rhythm to this offense tonight. But again, that's the rule, not the exception for the Wolves. Slow pace, lack of player movement, few screens and even fewer well-executed. But to make matters worse, there are all those long and mid-range two-point attempts. It's absolutely ridiculous and unacceptable in today's NBA. Yes, I wish we have better 3-point shooters, but that's no excuse for long twos. We have enough decent 3-point shooters to take the three over the long two. And if not the three, then just drive to the hole.

Butler and Wiggins were the only Wolves players played reasonably well for us tonight and Butler's performance Is tainted in part by his 5 turnovers and that missed free-throw in the end. And of course, Wiggins missed 2 free throws, but that's par for the course. I liked how active Wiggins was defensively with 3 steals and 2 blocks. Teague was absolutely horrific and should NOT have been in the game in the 4th quarter - or at least not in the last half of the 4th. He was pathetic on the offensive end and even worse defensively against Jackson. Teague's anemic 3 points weren't as bad as his unacceptable 5 turnovers. Thibs absolutely should have replaced him with Crawford or Tyus.

We have 10 wins because of individual talent on this team and some good fortune playing against teams who were missing key players -- Spurs missing KL, Charlotte missing Batum, Jazz missing Gobert, etc. Over time our lack of 3-point shooting and lack of a modern, faster-paced, team-oriented offense will likely keep this team under my 45-win projection and closer to Q's 38-42 range. And that's assuming no critical injuries. I've been up and down with this team so far this season. But I have and will remain consistently down on Thibs. As I've said from the beginning when he was hired, he's the wrong coach for this team and the wrong coach for this era.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Heh, I'm actually not quite in as much of a panic as I normally am! Detroit is a good team and our defense played reasonably well, but yeah, we kind of beat ourselves with the turnovers and iso-oriented basketball.

The thing about Teague is he was on that Atlanta 60-win team a few years ago that was known as an Eastern conference version of the Spurs with great ball and player movement. He should be able to play in that kind of system.

What I don't get is why we don't run more offense through KAT in the low AND high post so not everything is PnR or clear outs. Golden State and Boston run a ton of action up top with Draymond Green and Al Horford respectively as the play maker, with people screening and cutting all around them. Hell, if Andre Drummond is suddenly being used as a play maker then KAT sure as hell has the skills to hit open guys!

I also mentioned low post. KAT had Tolliver or Harris guarding him most of the game and I think he had one or two post ups. If Thibs was fixated on playing isolation basketball, at least get it to your most talented player when he has a smaller guy on him!

The bottom line is that it feels like KAT should be getting more touches in different spots on the floor. Not everything has to start with him setting a half-hearted screen in high pick and roll action.

[Monster]

The offense was part of the problem and excecution was an issue at times but the Wolves flat out missed some of their shots and the Pistons hit theirs. Reggie Jackson hit some tough shots down the stretch.

Lip Crawford was unavailable due to a migraine. There was time I think he would have been nice to have in there with Wiggins playing PF against Harris. Thibs bid put in Belly late but he probably could have gone to him earlier to give them more spacing. Detriot's Defense was pretty good a good chunk of this game. Avery Bradley is a beast.

One thing I think the Wolves should do more of is give Teague chances to take his guy off the dribble. If a defender presses up on him he should take him every time. Both he and Rubio do understand punishing a top aggressive defender and Teague can get past them and score if there is no foul.

There were also plenty of times in this game guys were passing too much. Take the open shot. There is absolutely too much isolation Basketball going on but at times I hear Thibs yelling "Move it" and they are not and the passes and spacing is there. I think it's both a coaching and player problem but I do question the coaching on that end. Sometimes Teague is standing there dribbling because nobody is doing anything. It's not unfamiliar as a Wolves fan to see this regardless of who is the PG. On the broadcast Jim showed how on one play Belly waved and Yelled at Towns to space out instead of rolling towards the rim. It was a good play by Belly but also I was thinking "What was Towns thinking it's clear he would have been wide open" although Jim said Towns wouldn't have known for sure and therefore a good play but Belly which it was. This team has guys that can score from all over the floor and it is going to take some time fo them to figure it out. If they can get Bazz going or find another shooter for the bench that would really make things interesting. That 2nd unit kinda struggled to score tonight without Crawford in there in the 2nd half.

[kekgeek]

I'm I happy with the loss of course not, who ever is. I think the Pistons took it more than the wolves lost it. They scored on ten straight possessions. But I would say only one play, the Drummond lob was defended poorly. Nice win by the Pistons.

Now some encouraging signs, the wolves are now 21st in Def rating and 5th in the month of November (9 games).

The wolves are a grind to watch this year, but they are legit good. We have the 6th best recorded in the NBA. We are 10-4 with Jimmy, 5-2 at home and 5-4 on the road.

Now tonight's game we missed an opportunity but lost to a good team. I agree with Q, I want more Kat post ups if the offense stalls.

On to the next one. Should be a tough one against the Hornets tomorrow.

[Lipoli390]

Heh, I'm actually not quite in as much of a panic as I normally am! Detroit is a good team and our defense played reasonably well, but yeah, we kind of beat ourselves with the turnovers and iso-oriented basketball.

The thing about Teague is he was on that Atlanta 60-win team a few years ago that was known as an Eastern conference version of the Spurs with great ball and player movement. He should be able to play in that kind of system.

What I don't get is why we don't run more offense through KAT in the low AND high post so not everything is PnR or clear outs. Golden State and Boston run a ton of action up top with Draymond Green and Al Horford respectively as the play maker, with people screening and cutting all around them. Hell, if Andre Drummond is suddenly being used as a play maker then KAT sure as hell has the skills to hit open guys!

I also mentioned low post. KAT had Tolliver or Harris guarding him most of the game and I think he had one or two post ups. If Thibs was fixated on playing isolation basketball, at least get it to your most talented player when he has a smaller guy on him!

The bottom line is that it feels like KAT should be getting more touches in different spots on the floor. Not everything has to start with him setting a half-hearted screen in high pick and roll action.

Q - Like you, I thought our defense was pretty good tonight. And I agree Detroit is a good team. But that's what worries me. What we saw from the Wolves tonight offensively was pretty typical. It works against the bad teams and can work sometimes again better teams playing without key players. But it's not going to get this team more than a 6th, 7th or 8th seed in the West this season or any other season and it could potentially put us in the lottery again.

I agree that the team needs to run the offense far more through KAT. That's another problem I have with Thibs' offense. It was frustrating last Wednesday night watching the Wolves running the offense only sporadically through KAT in the second half even though KAT was dominating in the first half and had Aldridge in foul early trouble.

I agree that Teague should flourish in a modern up-tempo offense with lots of ball movement. I remember seeing that offense when he was in Atlanta. That's simply further evidence that the issue is Thibs. Monster may be right that Thibs was calling at times for more ball movement and I saw players at times passing up good looks in favor or an extra pass. But it's not so much the number of passes, but the slow pace and lack of movement both on and off the ball that concerns me. This does not look like a team coached in practice to do more than isolation ball with a few pick-and-rolls mixed in.

As for Thibs barking for more ball movement, I think that represents a big part of the problem. My friend and Bulls season-ticket holder warned me when he first heard the news that the Wolves hired Thibs. He warned that Thibs calls nearly every play and directs nearly every movement from the bench. He's constantly barking orders. That can't be conducive to the quick reaction and instinctive play you need to succeed in the NBA today, especially on the offensive end. No other head coach in the NBA constantly barks orders on every single play of every single game. It's ridiculous. There's a part of me that wants a .500 or worse finish this season, which should spell the end of Thibs after this season. But that thought sickens me, so I'll have to keep pulling for this team to win even if it's in spite of the barking penguin.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Yeah, the lack of ball movement is puzzling...especially given Teague's history on an Atlanta team that was a prototypical ball movement team. To Monster's point, Thibs is constantly barking at his offense to move the ball (it gets annoying for the fans, but at least it tells me that it is not what he wants). But then he does nothing when his players don't comply! For god's sake, yank Teague out of the game when he dribbles around for 15 seconds rather than executing!

I agree with Lip that Teague had a poor game on both ends of the court and should not have been out there in the 4th...he didn't execute on offense, and he looked a step slow against Jackson on defense. But again, I blame Thibs more than Teague. Jeff has been playing well, but he looked totally gassed in the 4th while Reggie looked fresh having only played 29 minutes. Van Gundy is the vastly superior coach and saw the mismatch, and called Jackson's number over and over again. Teague has been an effective PG in his career playing for sane coaches who were smart enough to limit him to 32 MPG...he's not going to be very good if Thibs tries to play him 40 like he did tonight. Expect more nights of 5 TOs and poor defense if Thibs doesn't get the message. And the frustrating thing is he had a rested, capable PG sitting on the bench (with 3 assist and no TOs in the EIGHT minutes Thibs allowed him to play!). What a nitwit. This is a 52 win team if the Barking Ogre would just stay out of the way!

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Lol, the "Barking Ogre"...love that. The close-ups of Thibs during the broadcast are just hilarious...he is always looking angry, frustrated, or bewildered.

The squad is playing some better defense though of late, which is encouraging.

I absolutely do see a limit to where Thibs can take this team. Assuming he actually can mold this team into a much better defensive unit, he should eventually pass the torch to a younger, more cerebral coach that has a more sophisticated understanding of human behavior and embraces the modern NBA. Thibs seems slow to catch on.....

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Lol, the "Barking Ogre"...love that. The close-ups of Thibs during the broadcast are just hilarious...he is always looking angry, frustrated, or bewildered.

The squad is playing some better defense though of late, which is encouraging.

I absolutely do see a limit to where Thibs can take this team. Assuming he actually can mold this team into a much better defensive unit, he should eventually pass the torch to a younger, more cerebral coach that has a more sophisticated understanding of human behavior and embraces the modern NBA. Thibs seems slow to catch on.....

Yes, I agree with that observation (as do the stats), and Thibs deserves some credit for the defensive improvement. I also agree that there is a ceiling on how high he can take this team, and it's much lower than I see it's potential. Let's hope Glen sees it too.

[Monster]

It's still early but there are some interesting numbers if you look at NBA.com. For example when Teague is on the floor the Wolves play at a 101.0 pace (2nd only to Crawford). When he is off the floor it drops down to 97.34. You can look up some advanced stats so far and he is having a pretty solid season as a positive player for this team. The guy really bringing this team down is Bazz and it's worth mentioning Dieng's offensive rating is pretty rough. Belly for MVP... lol

[AbeVigodaLive]

Fell asleep early in this one. Maybe that's a good thing.

Big minutes again. And it sounds like a lot more iso ball with a lot of long twos... I'm beating a dead and decomposed horse by delving deeper into my thoughts on those things.

Defensively, it's noticeably better. But this still isn't a team even close to the elite level.