Zach LaVine...most improved player?

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Let's set aside the discussion of what position he should be playing for awhile, and celebrate his progress. If he continues this trajectory, he has to be a candidate for MIP.

Look at these comparative advanced stats for 2015 to date and last year:

PER: 19.38 (13th best PG) 11.31 (61st best PG)

VA: 32.1 (16th best PG, and one spot ahead of Rubio!) 8.9 (60th)

EWA: 1.1 (14th) .3 (59th)


If he keeps it up, or (gasp) continues to get better, he has to be in the conversation.

[AbeVigodaLive]

IF he keeps up with the stats he's putting up... yeah, he has to be considered.

But I don't even know what "VA" or "EWA" means.

[Carlos Danger]

Let's set aside the discussion of what position he should be playing for awhile, and celebrate his progress. If he continues this trajectory, he has to be a candidate for MIP.

Look at these comparative advanced stats for 2015 to date and last year:

PER: 19.38 (13th best PG) 11.31 (61st best PG)

VA: 32.1 (16th best PG, and one spot ahead of Rubio!) 8.9 (60th)

EWA: 1.1 (14th) .3 (59th)


If he keeps it up, or (gasp) continues to get better, he has to be in the conversation.

Good numbers LST. I suspect if you look at his month by month trend last year, the improvement might have started somewhere back then. It would be great if every rookie hit the floor running like Towns this year. But some guys come along a little slower. Hopefully the upward trend continues.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

IF he keeps up with the stats he's putting up... yeah, he has to be considered.

But I don't even know what "VA" or "EWA" means.

Value added and estimated wins added. Very esoteric stuff , but any rating that has Curry #1 ain't all bad.

How they are calculated is explained at the bottom of this link.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/VORPe

[AbeVigodaLive]

I can't keep track of all the "new" stats.

I've said it before... basketball canNOT be relegated to stats as much as baseball has without destroying ALL fun and context from the game. There are simply too many variables, from good/bad systems to good/bad teammates to good/bad drunken benders the night before to any number of other factors that make one player/stat different from another player/stat.

I dig using stats to support my arguments. They are meaningful a lot of the time. But the eye test still has a place in basketball... regardless of what the math nerds will tell you.

They've won the battle in baseball. God help me if they win in basketball.

[MikkeMan]

Let's set aside the discussion of what position he should be playing for awhile, and celebrate his progress. If he continues this trajectory, he has to be a candidate for MIP.

Look at these comparative advanced stats for 2015 to date and last year:

PER: 19.38 (13th best PG) 11.31 (61st best PG)

VA: 32.1 (16th best PG, and one spot ahead of Rubio!) 8.9 (60th)

EWA: 1.1 (14th) .3 (59th)


If he keeps it up, or (gasp) continues to get better, he has to be in the conversation.

I truly agree. Lavine's most impressive stat in terms of improvement might still be net rating. Last year -14.5, this year +2.0.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Yeah, Zach is opening up some eyes. The biggest thing to me is that his shot is falling. I ultimately see him as a shot maker - hell, he's already evolving into one. These are guys that can pull up on a dime off the dribble and drain one in your face. I'd say he's ahead of Wiggins in this area, whereas Wiggins is much further ahead in terms of getting to the hoop and drawing contact.

You have to be encouraged by the sheer numbers he's putting up right now given his age. The eye test (and turnovers) still indicate, however, someone that often makes poor decisions out there. For example, getting picked clean by Shabazz Napier. That just happens way too often to Zach. Or leading Gorgui on the pick and roll into a charge, when a cross-court pass to the wing (whose guy had already collapsed into the paint) would have been the right play. If he can improve in these areas along with his defense, look out!

[Monster]

Yeah, Zach is opening up some eyes. The biggest thing to me is that his shot is falling. I ultimately see him as a shot maker - hell, he's already evolving into one. These are guys that can pull up on a dime off the dribble and drain one in your face. I'd say he's ahead of Wiggins in this area, whereas Wiggins is much further ahead in terms of getting to the hoop and drawing contact.

You have to be encouraged by the sheer numbers he's putting up right now given his age. The eye test (and turnovers) still indicate, however, someone that often makes poor decisions out there. For example, getting picked clean by Shabazz Napier. That just happens way too often to Zach. Or leading Gorgui on the pick and roll into a charge, when a cross-court pass to the wing (whose guy had already collapsed into the paint) would have been the right play. If he can improve in these areas along with his defense, look out!

I agree with what you are saying Q. I'll say this it just feels like the last few games he has been making more positive plays and doing less of the WTF Zach plays. Last night he regressed back to more of the bad but the good was really good. He looks more comfortable to me as a PG knowing what he is doing. The whole year he has seemed to attack at better times and not settle like we have seen him do before. It's becoming clearer and clearer that you gotta put him on the floor and live with it because at this point the good is outweighing the bad. That could change but I have been very pleased with him lately even last night overall he was pretty good even with a couple pretty poor plays.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Yeah, Zach is opening up some eyes. The biggest thing to me is that his shot is falling. I ultimately see him as a shot maker - hell, he's already evolving into one. These are guys that can pull up on a dime off the dribble and drain one in your face. I'd say he's ahead of Wiggins in this area, whereas Wiggins is much further ahead in terms of getting to the hoop and drawing contact.

You have to be encouraged by the sheer numbers he's putting up right now given his age. The eye test (and turnovers) still indicate, however, someone that often makes poor decisions out there. For example, getting picked clean by Shabazz Napier. That just happens way too often to Zach. Or leading Gorgui on the pick and roll into a charge, when a cross-court pass to the wing (whose guy had already collapsed into the paint) would have been the right play. If he can improve in these areas along with his defense, look out!

I agree with what you are saying Q. I'll say this it just feels like the last few games he has been making more positive plays and doing less of the WTF Zach plays. Last night he regressed back to more of the bad but the good was really good. He looks more comfortable to me as a PG knowing what he is doing. The whole year he has seemed to attack at better times and not settle like we have seen him do before. It's becoming clearer and clearer that you gotta put him on the floor and live with it because at this point the good is outweighing the bad. That could change but I have been very pleased with him lately even last night overall he was pretty good even with a couple pretty poor plays.

The thing is that those poor (inexcusable) plays could have been eliminated without all the focus of him setting up an offense. The kid is an athletically gifted player. But the less thinking he has to do... the better.

I like him best when he has the reigns put away and just living or dying with the results.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

The question Abe - and the theory that Flip went with last year at least - was that playing the PG position would ultimately help him become a better SG because it DOES force him to think. i.e. endure short-term growing pains to create a better all around player.

It's either an interesting, dumb, or brilliant experiment depending on one's perspective.