The Small Forward Shuffle

[Volans19]

The Timberwolves have 5 SF's on their roster that all have their individual strengths and weaknesses, many (including myself) feel that none of them are starting caliber. WHO DO YOU THINK SHOULD FLIP TRY AND MOVE DURING THE OFFSEASON. I would like you to explain your argument as to why they should be moved or why they should be kept. You can vote for multiple players who you would like to see moved.

[Volans19]

I feel a case could made for all of these players to be retained as well as moved but here is what I'm thinking.

Brewer - The Love-Brewer connection has been a highlight of this season and if Flip can't upgrade the position over the summer Brewer should remain the starter. While Brewer isn't a great offensive player and often struggles on defense he is a pure energy player that has an infectious attitude who definitely has a place on the roster. Ideally Brewer will be moved to the bench next year because Flip acquires a legitimate starter and plays the role that he excelled at in Denver as a bench energy guy. To me Brewer is the safest player at SF to be on the roster next year.

Budinger - I like what Budinger has the potential to do, be an athletic wing who can hit 3's and drive to the basket. The problem is his injuries may hold him back from every becoming more than a sniper from deep (and he is too average from 3 to hope for that). I think that Budinger still has value around the league but there is no question we will not get anyone worthwhile in return for him and he may even have to be thrown in as filler in a bigger trade. Some here have mentioned that Budinger is one of Adelman's guy and that Flip signed him to appease the coach, I don't know how true that is but it may be a catalyst for moving him this summer

Moute - I thought that Moute should be the starter at SF on this team but Brewer has impressed me enough to accept his bench role. Moute is one of the elite defenders at the SF position in the NBA and I think that he was underused and unappreciated by Adelman. I still voted to move Moute despite how much I like him because we need to develop Shabazz and get him playing time. Ideally Moute would be able to play PF but I think he is too small and his talents would be wasted by not being able to guard the Lebron's and Carmello's of the world. I think Moute could net us a decent player in return and he is an expiring which should also increase his appeal.

Shabazz - He isn't an all around player, his handles suck, his defense is not great, but he is elite in the post and at offensive rebounding. I hope he loses weight and increases his skill set this off-season (sounds a lot like D-Will right?) but the main thing he needs next season is consistent minutes to prove whether or not he can be a contributor every game. I think that his value around the league is relatively low considering he hardly got off the bench all season and has a pretty bad reputation for his collegiate controversies and I want the Wolves to start developing their draft picks.

Hummel - He is cheap, he is decent in all areas relative to his pay, and he is cheap I think that he is the ideal 15th man, he can cover for 3 positions in case of injuries and some here think that he could develop into a 3 point threat. Unless we net 3 unbelievable second round players I don't think he should be released or traded.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I am struggling mightily with this issue. On the one hand, players like Budinger and Mbah Moute have been big disappointments for us overall. On the other hand, I see what they have done in prior settings. They can be very valuable to us if they played up to their historical standards. So I would hate to dump either of them when we would likely get very little in return. I consider both to be "value stocks", meaning their price is low now, but rather than cash out at a loss, I would prefer to hold and yield the benefits at a later date (i.e. next season). Some of you probably disagree with me and would just prefer to move one or both, regardless of what we get in return.

I've talked about Hummel before. The guy is a low-mistake, cheap player who is just happy to be in the NBA. He, along with Mbah Moute, are really hybrid SF/PFs and can match up against some 4's when teams go small. I think he would be fine as a cheap end of bench player that could get better if he can ever get his outside shot going.

As for Shabazz, he's on a rookie deal and we just didn't see enough of him to really know what we have. He has some very distinct limitations and some very distinct strengths. But I don't know yet whether the strengths outweigh the weaknesses. I doubt he would yield much in the trade market, so we might as well hold onto him too.

That leaves Brewer. Of our cadre of SFs, he's played the most minutes and has been the most consistent. And he brings it every single night. On the other hand, he often gets out-muscled by bigger SFs, gambles too much on defense, and doesn't stretch the defense. Of all our SFs, he would probably bring back the most value in return, simply because of the level of energy and effort he brings every night and his lack of injury problems.

One way to resolve this logjam is to move Brewer to our starting SG slot and Budinger to our starting SF slot and then bring Martin and Mbah Moute off the bench together. I think Brewer is probably better equipped to guard SGs anyway and it allows us to balance our bench out with a scorer like Martin.

[Volans19]

One way to resolve this logjam is to move Brewer to our starting SG slot and Budinger to our starting SF slot and then bring Martin and Mbah Moute off the bench together. I think Brewer is probably better equipped to guard SGs anyway and it allows us to balance our bench out with a scorer like Martin.

I agree the simpilest solution might just be to move Martin to the bench, hope Budinger stays healthy and can play his game, and have Moute play as a combo forward defending the best player on the court at the time off the bench.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Great poll, volans. With 5 SFs already on the roster, none of whom are especially adept at playing SG, and the possibility of improving this position through trades or the draft, it's clear that one or two of them need to be moved this offseason. My first thought is my usual one...I want to move any one of them where the return makes us better. Having said that, though, I can't imagine any market for Hummel at all, so I voted for each of the other four. I like all of them for different reasons, but they all also have deficiencies that are likely to limit their potential. I subscribe to q's value theory, and perhaps because he started all year and averaged 12 points a game with a top ten finish in steals, Corey Brewer might provide the best return. Trading any of the others might be an example of "selling low".

[repplile [enjin:8691898]]

First off thanks to Volans because this is a great topic for a thread.

Combined our 1-3 positions this year are costing us as follows:
1: Rubio, Barea and Price @ 9.7 million
2. Martin, Shved @ 9.5 million
3. Budinger, Brewer, Baz, LRMAM, Hummel and Jeffers @ 16.55 million

This is clearly untenable as SF has been the weakest position on the team in relative terms. As evidence of this we're being outscored there by 5 ppg at that position and our opponent's SF is typically 5 points better in PER. (I know this is not everyone's favorite set of metrics but it is merely some evidence of a problem in this case). Regardless of how you slice it, SF by committee isn't working.

I voted that we should move Luc and Hummel, though I would add to that the qualification that any of them should be movable for the right assets in return. My choices are premised on the notion that we are also moving Kevin Martin who I believe is a bad fit here given our defensive needs and still has some value around the league. If martin was moved and we did not get another top shelf wing in return I would like to see Brewer moved to the 2 as Q12543 and Volans advocated. Additionally I, like most people, would also like to see Barea gone.

Moving LMRAM is a priority in my opinion because he costs nearly 4.5 million next year, has little untapped potential, and gives us almost nothing besides defense. That's too much for a one way role player, especially since there are other options that satisfy his role. If we're interested in employing a defensive stopper to come in and disrupt things why not sign jeffers to the minimum next year for roughly 500k and use the 4m on something else? He's an expiring contract over next season so he might have some value and be easier to move for space than many of our other guys in that price range.

Moving hummel would not be a necessity due to his small salary but he is fundamentally a shooter who cannot shoot. Instead of wasting a roster spot hoping he might develop into a good shooter we may as well pluck one from the D-League or waivers after training camp if needed. Heck, I bet he'd be available to sign if we're thin during the season without a guaranteed contract anyway. My issue with Hummel is basically committing the roster spot to the development of a player with an admittedly low ceiling. There are higher potential gambles at the same cost and we should take those instead imo.

Since this is a player moving not player acquisition thread I won't go into who I think we should acquire for these assets but next year our salary situation would look roughly like this:

2014-15
1. Rubio and Shved @ 8.2 million
2. Brewer, Jeffers @ 5.2 million
3. Budinger and Baz @ 7 million

This clears roughly 15.7 million dollars and 4 roster spots for use on something else (worst case that something is player development for bazz and draft picks) and it would pave the way for a 2 way player at the wing if one becomes available. We still have a stopper and room to get some shooters if necessary and don't saddle ourselves with the roster imbalance of this season.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I don't care if any of them return.

I'd probably opt to keep Brewer out of any of them... as an energy guy off the bench. I think his flaws are exposed a bit more as a starter. But as that guy to bring energy for 20 or so minutes off the bench... I dig.

[BloopOracle]

People are really wanting to drop Shabazz for nothing? lol

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

I would opt to trade everyone except LRMAM, Bazz and Hummel. LRMAM is a better defender than Corey and while he is poor offensively, he can finish at the basket off of good cuts and Corey's 3 point shooting is almost a negative because at least LRMAM knows not to take the shot. He also gets as many boards as Corey in half the time. Quite frankly I don't get why he was never given the opportunity to start this year when you have 3 plus offensive guys in the starting lineup in Love, Pek and Martin and he is actually a stay at home defender you can put on the opposing teams best perimeter wing unlike Corey who gambles way too much to be a good defender.

I would rather keep Bazz over Bud because he can be a go-to scorer off the bench. He's not as good of a shooter, but he is a much better volume scorer than Bud and gives the second unit an offensive option, albeit not the most efficient kind, that they need. At the very least, you can give him the ball to get a bucket in the post while Bud pretty much gets all his points off cutting and spot-up shooting (needs others to set him up). In that sense, Bazz is a better creator. He is also a rookie so I look for him to improve, especially if given a bigger role going into next year.

Finally, Hummel makes the minimum and will probably develop into a pretty good 3 point shooter the longer he gets away from his college knee injuries. He doesn't make mistakes and as far as I am concerned, that is worth a minimum deal at the end of the bench as most teams would dream that they had an 11-15 guy on their roster that can fit that profile.

Brewer and Bud are overpaid and frankly aren't good enough for what we need from them. I don't know how you could dump them, but I would try whatever I could short of using a draft pick to get rid of them. That would cut 9.5 million dollars off the budget if we could trade them for straight up cap space which would be huge to getting back to paying guys what they are actually worth instead of overpaying role players even if it means it doesn't create that much cap space to work with. Honestly, I would test to see if NO would take Brewer, Bud and JJ for Gordon and Rivers. There is only a 2 million dollar difference in salaries that we would take on, but it would balance our roster. Gordon is overpaid, but he is another guy that can give you 15 a night either as a starter or off the bench and he can be effective in the PnR. NO is very weak at the 3 and Tyreke was only effective starting this year, so it could fit their needs as well.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

People are really wanting to drop Shabazz for nothing? lol

I don't see anyone saying that, bloop. There's only one vote in the poll for trading Shabazz and that's mine, and I'm one of the biggest Bazz supporters on the board. My vote for him was only based on a faint hope that we could get something of value in return...if not, we keep him.