Teams that won a title without Top 5 Player

[Q-is-here]

'25-26 Knicks???? TBD: Jalen Brunson (Player Efficiency Rating = 20.1, no MVP votes)....

'23-24 Celtics: Jayson Tatum (Player Efficiency Rating = 22.3, 6th in MVP votes). And it was Jaylen Brown that won the Finals MVP that year! It was just a really well-constructed team without any holes in it.

'21-22 Warriors: Stephen Curry (PER = 21.4, 8th in MVP). This was Golden State's last title run and Curry, while still really good (and still is!), was past his peak. Perennial underachiever Andrew Wiggins of all people was key in them winning it all that year!

'18-19 Raptors: Kawhi Leonard (PER = 25.8, 9th in MVP). The Raptors had a really good team before the fleeting acquisition of Kawhi. He took them over the top. You could argue that being voted 9th in MVP that year was undervaluing his impact, but he certainly didn't put up Jokic, Giannis, or SGA-type numbers that season.

'13-14 Spurs: Tim Duncan (PER = 21.3, 12th in MVP). Duncan was pretty old at this point and well past his prime, but he was the best player on the team that had multiple great players, but none were clear MVP-caliber players at this point in time. Tony Parker led the team in scoring that season. He averaged 16.7 points per game!

'10-11 Mavs: Dirk Nowitzski (PER = 23.4, 6th in MVP). Dallas took down the super-friends team of LeBron, Wade, and Bosh that clearly had the most talent in the NBA at the peak of their collective powers. It can be done!

'05-06 Heat: Dwayne Wade (PER = 27.6, 6th in MVP). Based on Wade's PER, he exhibited MVP-caliber production, but only came in 6th the season he won a title pre-LeBron/super friends.

'03-04 Pistons: Not Applicable. Not a single player on this team had a PER of 20 or higher or received MVP votes. Richard Hamilton was their leading scorer at 17.6 PPG. Ben Wallace was the closest they had to an MVP. This is the guy that averaged 9 points, shot 42% from the field and 49% on free throws.

[Wolvesfan21]

They have those elite role players. Some are being paid super well though too, I always thought the elite defenders / role players were undervalued. But OG for instance is now making 42 per season. So paid extremely well now.

Not sure how they afford KAT, Brunson and all those other guys to be honest. Maybe some backroom deals going on?

[FNG]

They have those elite role players. Some are being paid super well though too, I always thought the elite defenders / role players were undervalued. But OG for instance is now making 42 per season. So paid extremely well now.

Not sure how they afford KAT, Brunson and all those other guys to be honest. Maybe some backroom deals going on?

WF, the way they afford them is by not being worried about being a second apron team with the second biggest payroll in the Association. And it's only going to get worse if they try to bring Robinson back.

[Lipoli390]

They have those elite role players. Some are being paid super well though too, I always thought the elite defenders / role players were undervalued. But OG for instance is now making 42 per season. So paid extremely well now.

Not sure how they afford KAT, Brunson and all those other guys to be honest. Maybe some backroom deals going on?

WF, the way they afford them is by not being worried about being a second apron team with the second biggest payroll in the Association. And it's only going to get worse if they try to bring Robinson back.

I think that’s right, FNG. But here’s the thing with the Knicks. They can comfortably exceed the 2nd apron for three reasons. First, they’re actually in the Finals and on their way to a likely championship, so the second apron constrains are NOT impeding their ability to win. Second, none of their core players are close to being over the hill as they are all still in their prime so their roster has longevity. Third, they have at least four core players - maybe five or six - who have substantial trade value, which means they can easily pull the plug on the current team and quickly get well under the 2nd apron with trades that position them very well for a strong rebuild or re-tool - depending on who they trade.

[rapsuperstar31]

They have those elite role players. Some are being paid super well though too, I always thought the elite defenders / role players were undervalued. But OG for instance is now making 42 per season. So paid extremely well now.

Not sure how they afford KAT, Brunson and all those other guys to be honest. Maybe some backroom deals going on?

WF, the way they afford them is by not being worried about being a second apron team with the second biggest payroll in the Association. And it's only going to get worse if they try to bring Robinson back.

They did let Hartenstein go, who goes on to win a championship the next season.

[WildWolf2813]

They have those elite role players. Some are being paid super well though too, I always thought the elite defenders / role players were undervalued. But OG for instance is now making 42 per season. So paid extremely well now.

Not sure how they afford KAT, Brunson and all those other guys to be honest. Maybe some backroom deals going on?

WF, the way they afford them is by not being worried about being a second apron team with the second biggest payroll in the Association. And it's only going to get worse if they try to bring Robinson back.

They did let Hartenstein go, who goes on to win a championship the next season.

He left because they didn't own his Bird rights and could only offer but so much.

It's funny how the 2nd apron didn't affect the Knicks but Tim Connelly got caught with his pants down any time something league wide happens.

The 2nd apron
Misreading free agency
TC misread the 2nd round and how that's gone

I really wish my GM had a solid contingency plan for when things change in the league

[Q-is-here]

Don't forget that Brunson agreed to a sweetheart deal that literally no one with his type of role as lead guard in the NBA would ever accept these days. Kekgeek mentioned this in his summary of things and surmises that keeping his sleazy father employed and whatever deal he's on is what allowed them to do this.

[Q-is-here]

They have those elite role players. Some are being paid super well though too, I always thought the elite defenders / role players were undervalued. But OG for instance is now making 42 per season. So paid extremely well now.

Not sure how they afford KAT, Brunson and all those other guys to be honest. Maybe some backroom deals going on?

OG has been amazing for sure. He's never averaged more than 18 PPG in any regular season OR playoffs until this playoff run with the Knicks. He's overtaken KAT as the Knicks' 2nd option and is averaging 20 PPG in the playoffs on super efficient shooting numbers. He's playing like a Max player and should win Finals MVP if the Knicks close this out.

My guess is that Connelly and Finch are watching this and saying, "That could be Jaden!". Of course, the other outcome for Jaden could be Mikal Bridges, which is still a really good player. But OG has taken his game to another level entirely.

[Wolvesfan21]

They have those elite role players. Some are being paid super well though too, I always thought the elite defenders / role players were undervalued. But OG for instance is now making 42 per season. So paid extremely well now.

Not sure how they afford KAT, Brunson and all those other guys to be honest. Maybe some backroom deals going on?

OG has been amazing for sure. He's never averaged more than 18 PPG in any regular season OR playoffs until this playoff run with the Knicks. He's overtaken KAT as the Knicks' 2nd option and is averaging 20 PPG in the playoffs on super efficient shooting numbers. He's playing like a Max player and should win Finals MVP if the Knicks close this out.

My guess is that Connelly and Finch are watching this and saying, "That could be Jaden!". Of course, the other outcome for Jaden could be Mikal Bridges, which is still a really good player. But OG has taken his game to another level entirely.

Jaden is just inconsistent. At times he plays like a max player, at other times he doesn't show up. So IDk what to expect from him going forward, we'll see.

[Wolvesfan21]

WF, the way they afford them is by not being worried about being a second apron team with the second biggest payroll in the Association. And it's only going to get worse if they try to bring Robinson back.

They did let Hartenstein go, who goes on to win a championship the next season.

He left because they didn't own his Bird rights and could only offer but so much.

It's funny how the 2nd apron didn't affect the Knicks but Tim Connelly got caught with his pants down any time something league wide happens.

The 2nd apron
Misreading free agency
TC misread the 2nd round and how that's gone

I really wish my GM had a solid contingency plan for when things change in the league

I'm starting to turn on TC a bit also. He started out here strong, but has floundered the last year and a half to be honest. Maybe ever since the Dilly draft/trade, he's been maybe a C minus operator.