Twins Spring Training 2021

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

jester, as always, good back-and-forth here. You really hold it down over on the Twins side of the house. I would always say that going 1-4 with a homer trumps going 1-4 without every time, but I'll take the guy that goes 1-3 with an RBI double, run scored, and a walk three times a week over the guy that goes 1-4 with a homer and then 0-4 in the next two games. And in many cases those are the guys that are putting the ball in play more while sacrificing power compared to the big boppers who strike out a ton but put up better power numbers. I like consistency and reliability even at the cost of power. But I realize that this part of the discussion strays from your original point about strikeouts being regular outs. Totally understand that point.

If the Twins get the good version of Sano, then great. He'll certainly provide value in the middle of the lineup. I'm just never sure what Sano I'm getting from season to season, month to month, or even game to game. And it's frustrating as all hell.

[Jester1534]

jester, as always, good back-and-forth here. You really hold it down over on the Twins side of the house. I would always say that going 1-4 with a homer trumps going 1-4 without every time, but I'll take the guy that goes 1-3 with an RBI double, run scored, and a walk three times a week over the guy that goes 1-4 with a homer and then 0-4 in the next two games. And in many cases those are the guys that are putting the ball in play more while sacrificing power compared to the big boppers who strike out a ton but put up better power numbers. I like consistency and reliability even at the cost of power. But I realize that this part of the discussion strays from your original point about strikeouts being regular outs. Totally understand that point.

If the Twins get the good version of Sano, then great. He'll certainly provide value in the middle of the lineup. I'm just never sure what Sano I'm getting from season to season, month to month, or even game to game. And it's frustrating as all hell.

Let me spin this in another direction Cam. I was thinking of this on my way home.

Would you rather have Arraez winning a batting title let's say .350+ or Nelson Cruz with top 5 OPS season? You can only have one. Take defense out of the equation.

I would choose the OPS guy everyday of the week. It's nice the twins can have both things.

[Jester1534]

Also I will say Sano problem isn't that he strike out to much. Its what Cam brought up it's that he's inconsistent we never know if we're getting all star Sano or not.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

jester, as always, good back-and-forth here. You really hold it down over on the Twins side of the house. I would always say that going 1-4 with a homer trumps going 1-4 without every time, but I'll take the guy that goes 1-3 with an RBI double, run scored, and a walk three times a week over the guy that goes 1-4 with a homer and then 0-4 in the next two games. And in many cases those are the guys that are putting the ball in play more while sacrificing power compared to the big boppers who strike out a ton but put up better power numbers. I like consistency and reliability even at the cost of power. But I realize that this part of the discussion strays from your original point about strikeouts being regular outs. Totally understand that point.

If the Twins get the good version of Sano, then great. He'll certainly provide value in the middle of the lineup. I'm just never sure what Sano I'm getting from season to season, month to month, or even game to game. And it's frustrating as all hell.

Let me spin this in another direction Cam. I was thinking of this on my way home.

Would you rather have Arraez winning a batting title let's say .350+ or Nelson Cruz with top 5 OPS season? You can only have one. Take defense out of the equation.

I would choose the OPS guy everyday of the week. It's nice the twins can have both things.

100-percent we're taking Nelson Cruz or whatever fill-in-the-blank hitter that posts a top OPS figure, but is Miguel Sano anywhere near that level? I just don't see it despite some flashes here and there. Cruz hasn't posted an OPS below .800 since 2013 and even then it was .833, which is certainly respectable. Cruz has been one of the most consistent sluggers in the game for a decade and it's that consistently good/great production that separates him from the other boppers in the game, in my opinion. I'm sure your aware of all of this so there's no need for me to continue on the excellence of Cruz's career, but I just don't see Sano being that caliber of player.

Now, if we're asking whether I would take Sano or Luis Arraez if I could only have one... I'm taking the latter in Arraez even without factoring in cost and defensive ability where Arraez also has an edge. Keep in mind I'm not even all that high on Arraez, but I think he contributes more to winning baseball. I think raw power -- and little else -- is more easily replaceable than an overall good hitter who checks multiple boxes.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Also I will say Sano problem isn't that he strike out to much. Its what Cam brought up it's that he's inconsistent we never know if we're getting all star Sano or not.

Bingo! If I had to narrow down my position on Sano to one line, it would be exactly that. The guy has tremendous talent and the body of an NFL defensive lineman, but you never know which guy shows up to the ballpark and over time that inconsistency drains some fans more than others. Ha!

[Jester1534]

jester, as always, good back-and-forth here. You really hold it down over on the Twins side of the house. I would always say that going 1-4 with a homer trumps going 1-4 without every time, but I'll take the guy that goes 1-3 with an RBI double, run scored, and a walk three times a week over the guy that goes 1-4 with a homer and then 0-4 in the next two games. And in many cases those are the guys that are putting the ball in play more while sacrificing power compared to the big boppers who strike out a ton but put up better power numbers. I like consistency and reliability even at the cost of power. But I realize that this part of the discussion strays from your original point about strikeouts being regular outs. Totally understand that point.

If the Twins get the good version of Sano, then great. He'll certainly provide value in the middle of the lineup. I'm just never sure what Sano I'm getting from season to season, month to month, or even game to game. And it's frustrating as all hell.

Let me spin this in another direction Cam. I was thinking of this on my way home.

Would you rather have Arraez winning a batting title let's say .350+ or Nelson Cruz with top 5 OPS season? You can only have one. Take defense out of the equation.

I would choose the OPS guy everyday of the week. It's nice the twins can have both things.

100-percent we're taking Nelson Cruz or whatever fill-in-the-blank hitter that posts a top OPS figure, but is Miguel Sano anywhere near that level? I just don't see it despite some flashes here and there. Cruz hasn't posted an OPS below .800 since 2013 and even then it was .833, which is certainly respectable. Cruz has been one of the most consistent sluggers in the game for a decade and it's that consistently good/great production that separates him from the other boppers in the game, in my opinion. I'm sure your aware of all of this so there's no need for me to continue on the excellence of Cruz's career, but I just don't see Sano being that caliber of player.

Now, if we're asking whether I would take Sano or Luis Arraez if I could only have one... I'm taking the latter in Arraez even without factoring in cost and defensive ability where Arraez also has an edge. Keep in mind I'm not even all that high on Arraez, but I think he contributes more to winning baseball. I think raw power -- and little else -- is more easily replaceable than an overall good hitter who checks multiple boxes.

Eddie Rosario vs Arraez may be a better scenario. Since you pointed out Eddie is constantly around .800 ops

I would take Eddie. I'm huge Arraez guy as well but I value driving the ball more than getting on base. I'd also take 2019 Sano over both of them but the problem is we get 2020 Sano every other year.

[Monster]

jester, as always, good back-and-forth here. You really hold it down over on the Twins side of the house. I would always say that going 1-4 with a homer trumps going 1-4 without every time, but I'll take the guy that goes 1-3 with an RBI double, run scored, and a walk three times a week over the guy that goes 1-4 with a homer and then 0-4 in the next two games. And in many cases those are the guys that are putting the ball in play more while sacrificing power compared to the big boppers who strike out a ton but put up better power numbers. I like consistency and reliability even at the cost of power. But I realize that this part of the discussion strays from your original point about strikeouts being regular outs. Totally understand that point.

If the Twins get the good version of Sano, then great. He'll certainly provide value in the middle of the lineup. I'm just never sure what Sano I'm getting from season to season, month to month, or even game to game. And it's frustrating as all hell.

Let me spin this in another direction Cam. I was thinking of this on my way home.

Would you rather have Arraez winning a batting title let's say .350+ or Nelson Cruz with top 5 OPS season? You can only have one. Take defense out of the equation.

I would choose the OPS guy everyday of the week. It's nice the twins can have both things.

100-percent we're taking Nelson Cruz or whatever fill-in-the-blank hitter that posts a top OPS figure, but is Miguel Sano anywhere near that level? I just don't see it despite some flashes here and there. Cruz hasn't posted an OPS below .800 since 2013 and even then it was .833, which is certainly respectable. Cruz has been one of the most consistent sluggers in the game for a decade and it's that consistently good/great production that separates him from the other boppers in the game, in my opinion. I'm sure your aware of all of this so there's no need for me to continue on the excellence of Cruz's career, but I just don't see Sano being that caliber of player.

Now, if we're asking whether I would take Sano or Luis Arraez if I could only have one... I'm taking the latter in Arraez even without factoring in cost and defensive ability where Arraez also has an edge. Keep in mind I'm not even all that high on Arraez, but I think he contributes more to winning baseball. I think raw power -- and little else -- is more easily replaceable than an overall good hitter who checks multiple boxes.

Eddie Rosario vs Arraez may be a better scenario. Since you pointed out Eddie is constantly around .800 ops

I would take Eddie. I'm huge Arraez guy as well but I value driving the ball more than getting on base. I'd also take 2019 Sano over both of them but the problem is we get 2020 Sano every other year.

I think Arraez might be the guy I pick if the lineup doesn't have an on base guy. If he gets on base a ton I think that will be good for this lineup.

As for Sano and his consistency...part of that is his injury history. He has never even reached 500 plate appearances much less 500 abs. You can add that to how you value Sano but his inconsistency (which I absolutely agree with) has been affected by something other than just simply whether he has performed or not performed. On one hand you COULD argue MAYBE there was because of this he could start putting it all together but the injury history is also worrisome.

Regardless he is a guy that ultimately has not been the high level bat that was expected and now that he is a 1B/DH guy instead of someone playing 3b that bat has to be a lot more special. Fortunately his contract isn't ridiculous and not much longer either. Let's hope he gets on a good run this year...or maybe just hope the talented guys behind him are legit making whether or not he hits well less of a concern.

[Jester1534]

I think we set a record for posts on the Twins side of the board today. I might shed a tear.

[bleedspeed]

I think we set a record for posts on the Twins side of the board today. I might shed a tear.

Slow your roll. It is not even opening day. :-)

[Porckchop]

It's one thing to strike out a lot, it's another to rarely walk. I love baseball becuz stats are so much fun to look at. Bonds walked 232 times in 2004 and only struck out 100 times in a season once. ( his rookie season)
Sano has walked 265 times in 6 years while striking out 834 times. In 20 years Bonds swung and missed 1539 times.
IMO Bonds stat line across the board in 2004 is the most impressive achievement in modern day sports.
Not fair to compare Sano to Bonds I know. I just really love glossing over Barrys numbers and talking about them!! Lol

Thanks for making the Twins forum worth visiting Jester.