It's time to move on from DLO....

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Coolbreeze44
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Re: It's time to move on from DLO....

Post by Coolbreeze44 »

Tactical unit wrote:
Camden wrote:
Tactical unit wrote:Regular season DLO vs Playoff DLO curious on if the stats tell the same story?

Just from a viewing perspective, it seemed the team was better with J-Mac & Beverley all out hustle style of play.

I think Beverley as the veteran leader and a developing J-Mac could be a net win over DLO. Maybe add rookie guard or another cheap vet guard. Finch seemed to think J-Mac was the answer with everything on the line. If we keep DLO I think he should be moved into 6th man of the year type of role. I've already said this in the past but when he is hot you don't want another player on the court and he would be focused on what he does best, scoring.

It's rather obvious but it really depends on what you can get in return.


It depends on how you evaluate players and the game of basketball in general. For instance, D'Angelo Russell had the second-highest net rating for Minnesota in the playoffs behind Jaden McDaniels. He wasn't nearly as good as that rating would indicate, but he was much better (or less bad) than his terrible shooting would suggest. In any case, it would be unwise and illogical to make personnel decisions based on a single playoff series alone. Should Utah move Donovan Mitchell? What about Atlanta and Trae Young? Two higher usage guards that struggled and came up short in their playoff series. Maybe let's pump the brakes and consider the entire picture.

Patrick Beverley and Jordan McLaughlin cannot replace Russell unless we want to take a serious step back in the wins column. I shouldn't need to expend energy explaining that. It's also unlikely that a rookie or journeyman could give you enough to make up the difference. If Russell is moved or allowed to walk next summer, then the Wolves will have to bring in an outside replacement.

Also, Chris Finch rode the hot hand in a singular moment. Kudos to him for having the courage to bench one of his best players who was struggling, but he'd be the first to tell you that it was situational coaching and nothing more. Watch and/or read his exit interview and you'll see that he willingly shares the blame for how Russell was used in that series. There will be a day for Russell to primarily come off the bench for whatever team he plays for. He's not there yet-- not even close.


I think Finch speaking positive about DLO is more about if he's back he needs the best out of him and why tank his value shitting on him. How he really feels about him = turn the ball over in a critical point in the game with the playoffs on the line and he'd rather trust J-Mac situational or not that action speaks pretty loud to me.

Bev & J-Mac defend better and with the fire power on this team they don't need massive scoring options at every position. With DLO they start him with Bev and ANT at the SF. All year I said the way to get this team to reach a high ceiling was by developing McDaniels, turn him into an up and coming better version of R. Horry at SF then put Ant at SG and now you have something strong. To be fair moving Bev to the bench for McDaniels could be more of a net positive, and still moves ANT to SG.

I disagree with DLO isn't close to a bench type of player, I see him excelling and impacting the game quite a bit in a much more focused role of get buckets 6th man of the year type of role. Basically he comes in, if he's getting buckets you ride his hot hand for as long as it's hot.

I'll continue to say it depends on what you get for him as to weather you trade DLO or not. The focus should be more on upgrading PF and developing McDaniels at SF.


Yeah Buddy
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Lipoli390
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Re: It's time to move on from DLO....

Post by Lipoli390 »

KG4Ever wrote:Per Twitter (The_Cooler), Givony reports there are rumors NY (11) and Washington (10) could be willing to trade their picks to the Pacers in exchange for Malcolm Brogdon.

Also, Givony has the #Rockets taking TyTy Washington at #17 ahead of Tari Eason.

If we can somehow land Daniels or Eason in the first round, I'll be pretty happy. If we could then land at least two of the following: Koloko, Kris Murray, Justin Lewis, Dom Barlow, Jalen Williams and Andrew Nembhard in the second, I'll be ecstatic.


The guy I'd take among those with a reasonable chance of being available at #19 is Jalen Williams. But he may actually be gone by that pick.

If the Wizards and Knicks are willing to trade their picks for Brogdon, then I would think they'd be willing to swap their 1st-round picks for our #19 and DLO. I'm not a big DLO fan and didn't like the trade that brought him here, but I recognize that DLO is a very good starting PG and I wouldn't trade him straight up for Brogdon. DLO is at least as good overall as Brogdon. He's also younger and has the added value of an expiring contract.

There's no getting around the fact that DLO was the starting PG on a 46-win team that took the team with the second-best record in the West to six games in the playoffs. Yes, DLO had some terrible games in both the regular season and the playoffs. But he was highly productive and contributed significantly to winning. Is he an ideal fit for the Wolves? I suppose not. But who is? And if he's a good enough fit to win 46 games, why isn't he good enough to win 50 games or more, assuming improvement from our two youngest players and the addition of a solid free-agent starting big? That last question is intended to be rhetorical. :) Is DLO worth a max deal? No. But since his current contract is expiring and the Wolves will be under the luxury tax threshold, his salary isn't a significant problem. In fact, it enhances his trade value. DLO has proven that he'll help the team win. But if we can enhance the Wolves chances of winning in the long term, then I'd be on board with trading him.

If it were up to me, I'd swap our #19 pick and DLO to Washington for #10 and Porzingis or #10 and both Kuzma and KCP. I think the Wizards would consider either deal. In either case, we'd need to acquire a PG via free agency using our MLE. We might not be better in the short run, but I think we'd be at least as good as we were last season. And I think we'd be better over the long haul because I think Daniels will become a really good NBA player. Have I bought into the Daniels hype? No. I posted my high opinion of Daniels before the hype started. But note that it's not just media hype. Apparently, front office executives and scouts in the League are now really high on him, which is why he likely won't last past #10. And that supports the Wolves giving serious consideration to trading up to get him.
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Monster
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Re: It's time to move on from DLO....

Post by Monster »

lipoli390 wrote:
KG4Ever wrote:Per Twitter (The_Cooler), Givony reports there are rumors NY (11) and Washington (10) could be willing to trade their picks to the Pacers in exchange for Malcolm Brogdon.

Also, Givony has the #Rockets taking TyTy Washington at #17 ahead of Tari Eason.

If we can somehow land Daniels or Eason in the first round, I'll be pretty happy. If we could then land at least two of the following: Koloko, Kris Murray, Justin Lewis, Dom Barlow, Jalen Williams and Andrew Nembhard in the second, I'll be ecstatic.


The guy I'd take among those with a reasonable chance of being available at #19 is Jalen Williams. But he may actually be gone by that pick.

If the Wizards and Knicks are willing to trade their picks for Brogdon, then I would think they'd be willing to swap their 1st-round picks for our #19 and DLO. I'm not a big DLO fan and didn't like the trade that brought him here, but I recognize that DLO is a very good starting PG and I wouldn't trade him straight up for Brogdon. DLO is at least as good overall as Brogdon. He's also younger and has the added value of an expiring contract.

There's no getting around the fact that DLO was the starting PG on a 46-win team that took the team with the second-best record in the West to six games in the playoffs. Yes, DLO had some terrible games in both the regular season and the playoffs. But he was highly productive and contributed significantly to winning. Is he an ideal fit for the Wolves? I suppose not. But who is? And if he's a good enough fit to win 46 games, why isn't he good enough to win 50 games or more, assuming improvement from our two youngest players and the addition of a solid free-agent starting big? That last question is intended to be rhetorical. :) Is DLO worth a max deal? No. But since his current contract is expiring and the Wolves will be under the luxury tax threshold, his salary isn't a significant problem. In fact, it enhances his trade value. DLO has proven that he'll help the team win. But if we can enhance the Wolves chances of winning in the long term, then I'd be on board with trading him.

If it were up to me, I'd swap our #19 pick and DLO to Washington for #10 and Porzingis or #10 and both Kuzma and KCP. I think the Wizards would consider either deal. In either case, we'd need to acquire a PG via free agency using our MLE. We might not be better in the short run, but I think we'd be at least as good as we were last season. And I think we'd be better over the long haul because I think Daniels will become a really good NBA player. Have I bought into the Daniels hype? No. I posted my high opinion of Daniels before the hype started. But note that it's not just media hype. Apparently, front office executives and scouts in the League are now really high on him, which is why he likely won't last past #10. And that supports the Wolves giving serious consideration to trading up to get him.


Lip the thing about those teams trading for Russell instead of Brogdon is Russell makes almost 10 million more. That means those teams have to come up with that extra salary to match. Sometimes that's just enough to say no on either side. If Russell was making more like 20 million he would be much easier to move just in terms of match salaries.

Meanwhile Russell is an expiring. For some teams that's good. For other teams they may value having Brogdon signed for a seemingly reasonable deal for 2 additional years. If it was me I would probably prefer getting Brogdon locked in instead of Russell who could leave in a year or I basically have to pay him whatever I have to. I tend to think he will get at most Brogdon level money but you never know.

I'm not sure trading away Russell for whatever the Wolves would get back is worth trading up a few spots. I realize you likely would agree as it would depend on who was available. I think it's interesting we are hearing reports about some other players being moved or at least teams being interested but there hasn't been much about Russell. That doesn't mean there isn't interest though.

I did see some Cleveland guy that may or may not be legit that said the Cavs are interested in Beasley depending on what happens with Sexton. There are some interesting guards like Sexton this offseason and what they get in terms of salary will be interesting. Mark Cuban said they can pay Jalen Brunson more than anybody...
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Lipoli390
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Re: It's time to move on from DLO....

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Good points, Monster. The contract/salary differential between DLO and Brogdon could cut one way or the other, depending on the teams involved. And as always, trading up makes sense or not depending on the prospect you get from moving up. I've fallen in love with Dyson Daniels, so he's a guy I'd trade up for. Not sure how high we'd need to go to get him. I happen to believe he'll be a really good NBA PG based on watching video, reading draft analysis and seeing his stats. I also think he would fit perfectly because his strengths are defense, playmaking and rebounding - three things we need and that would blend well with KAT and Ant. If I'm wrong about him, then obviously it would be a bad idea to trade up for him. :). I really like Tari Eason, but I'm not sure I'd be willing to trade up to get him, unless we would do it without giving up more than a a couple of our 2nd-round picks.
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Camden [enjin:6601484]
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Re: It's time to move on from DLO....

Post by Camden [enjin:6601484] »

Minnesota: D'Angelo Russell
_______________________________________

Dallas: Tim Hardaway Jr., Maxi Kleber

Los Angeles: Marcus Morris, Luke Kennard

New York: Evan Fournier, Nerlens Noel

Orlando: Jonathan Isaac, Markelle Fultz

Washington: Kyle Kuzma, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope

Which of these deals are you pulling the trigger on? Select all that apply and explain why. Also consider that every offer here includes at least one player that has at least one additional year of salary on their current deal. These are the kinds of offers that I would expect to be out there for Russell if Minnesota were to explore trading him.
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thedoper
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Re: It's time to move on from DLO....

Post by thedoper »

Camden wrote:Minnesota: D'Angelo Russell
_______________________________________

Dallas: Tim Hardaway Jr., Maxi Kleber

Los Angeles: Marcus Morris, Luke Kennard

New York: Evan Fournier, Nerlens Noel

Orlando: Jonathan Isaac, Markelle Fultz

Washington: Kyle Kuzma, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope

Which of these deals are you pulling the trigger on? Select all that apply and explain why. Also consider that every offer here includes at least one player that has at least one additional year of salary on their current deal. These are the kinds of offers that I would expect to be out there for Russell if Minnesota were to explore trading him.


The Orlando deal is the only one that has any upside and there are big risks there.
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Lipoli390
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Re: It's time to move on from DLO....

Post by Lipoli390 »

Camden wrote:Minnesota: D'Angelo Russell
_______________________________________

Dallas: Tim Hardaway Jr., Maxi Kleber

Los Angeles: Marcus Morris, Luke Kennard

New York: Evan Fournier, Nerlens Noel

Orlando: Jonathan Isaac, Markelle Fultz

Washington: Kyle Kuzma, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope

Which of these deals are you pulling the trigger on? Select all that apply and explain why. Also consider that every offer here includes at least one player that has at least one additional year of salary on their current deal. These are the kinds of offers that I would expect to be out there for Russell if Minnesota were to explore trading him.


The only one I'd consider would be the Orlando deal. But I wouldn't do it because of the physical health risks associated with both Isaac and Fultz. I'd do the Washington deal if it also involved swapping our #19 and 48 for #10.
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Camden [enjin:6601484]
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Re: It's time to move on from DLO....

Post by Camden [enjin:6601484] »

thedoper wrote:
Camden wrote:Minnesota: D'Angelo Russell
_______________________________________

Dallas: Tim Hardaway Jr., Maxi Kleber

Los Angeles: Marcus Morris, Luke Kennard

New York: Evan Fournier, Nerlens Noel

Orlando: Jonathan Isaac, Markelle Fultz

Washington: Kyle Kuzma, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope

Which of these deals are you pulling the trigger on? Select all that apply and explain why. Also consider that every offer here includes at least one player that has at least one additional year of salary on their current deal. These are the kinds of offers that I would expect to be out there for Russell if Minnesota were to explore trading him.


The Orlando deal is the only one that has any upside and there are big risks there.


I agree that the Orlando offer here is perhaps the best of this bunch, but none of them get me particularly excited. I feel like Minnesota probably gets worse after any one of them and the rearranging of parts wouldn't be worth losing a key piece in the backcourt.
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Camden [enjin:6601484]
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Re: It's time to move on from DLO....

Post by Camden [enjin:6601484] »

lipoli390 wrote:
Camden wrote:Minnesota: D'Angelo Russell
_______________________________________

Dallas: Tim Hardaway Jr., Maxi Kleber

Los Angeles: Marcus Morris, Luke Kennard

New York: Evan Fournier, Nerlens Noel

Orlando: Jonathan Isaac, Markelle Fultz

Washington: Kyle Kuzma, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope

Which of these deals are you pulling the trigger on? Select all that apply and explain why. Also consider that every offer here includes at least one player that has at least one additional year of salary on their current deal. These are the kinds of offers that I would expect to be out there for Russell if Minnesota were to explore trading him.


The only one I'd consider would be the Orlando deal. But I wouldn't do it because of the physical health risks associated with both Isaac and Fultz. I'd do the Washington deal if it also involved swapping our #19 and 48 for #10.


I personally don't think there's going to be much of a difference in the quality of prospect available at 10 versus 19 in this particular class, Lip. I know you have your eyes on Dyson Daniels, though. I wouldn't agree to that trade or any of the ones mentioned above. I feel like it'd be an unnecessary step back. I did want to show the kind of offers that might be out there and how they're probably not all that appealing.
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Tactical unit
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Re: It's time to move on from DLO....

Post by Tactical unit »

Camden wrote:Minnesota: D'Angelo Russell
_______________________________________

Dallas: Tim Hardaway Jr., Maxi Kleber

Los Angeles: Marcus Morris, Luke Kennard

New York: Evan Fournier, Nerlens Noel

Orlando: Jonathan Isaac, Markelle Fultz

Washington: Kyle Kuzma, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope

Which of these deals are you pulling the trigger on? Select all that apply and explain why. Also consider that every offer here includes at least one player that has at least one additional year of salary on their current deal. These are the kinds of offers that I would expect to be out there for Russell if Minnesota were to explore trading him.


Is Fultz an negative asset or positive asset? I would think negative based on contract but could you maybe flip him as an upside player and net something in return? That would determine weather or not I want to do the deal. Leaning no on this particular ORL deal.

Rest of those deals are intentionally constructed to handicap MN salary and not very appealing. It only takes one buyer to make out decent on DLO.
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