What do you do with the number 1 pick?

[Monster]

According to The Ringer, LaMelo Ball was in the 4th percentile in defending spot-up shot attempts and below the 1st percentile in defending pick-and-rolls during his 12-game stretch in the NBL. How is it possible to be that fucking atrocious on defense? That's not just bad. That's downright unplayable, especially when you consider the talent level over there is a fraction of what exists in the NBA.

That along with his completely broken shot is enough to turn me away from him altogether. How is he going to be successful in the NBA let alone become a star player? He can't consistently beat defenders off the bounce because he lacks above average athleticism. He can't make shots from the perimeter because he has the mechanics of a middle schooler. He can't defend on ball or off ball. He's a good rebounder for his position thanks to his 6'7 frame and he's a quality facilitator/passer albeit a less valuable skill if he's unable to present himself to be a viable scoring threat.

I can't understand why he's considered one of the top prospects in this draft class. Is it the high school hype? Is it the social media fame? Is it the family name? It must be one of those factors because if we're judging him off of what he's done on a basketball court even in a limited sample size he's not worthy of being in that discussion.

Edit: Ball is a 6'7 Ricky Rubio that can't defend or a 6'7 Trae Young that can't shoot. Either way, you won't be winning m(any) games if he's one of your best players.

These are some bad numbers but it's still12 games. I'm not sure he is that poor of an athlete but I get where you are coming from. I think the path to Ball being worth the hype is a legit passing playmaker with a SF length is plenty intriguing. His shot certainly looks less bad than his older brother who has it figured out to some extent at least from 3. Because he simply hasn't played a ton for like 3years to me Ball is about the "Potential". This isn't me saying I want him (even though I have said that before) just the angle If why he is considered a high level prospect. Some of your general thinking on Melo is actually why I had questions about Lonzo being able to become a star...so why pick him so high especially with a guy like Fox available...

[Monster]

Also, it's obviously not mandatory or anything, but if you vote for the "trade down" option as many of you have, I think it would be beneficial to know what player you're targeting in that move and what asset you could realistically expect in return.

Trading down always sounds nice in theory, but you have to have a plan in place and a partner that it makes sense for. I'd like to hear those cases. I might have a counterargument for some of them.

Cam I really don't know who I would target in a trade down because I have no idea what reasonable asset I would get for moving down and who would actually be available. If I ended up with Haliburton after a trade down and got some sort of future asset I would do that. I'd likely do that for Okongwu as well...of course those guys could be gone. The real reason I'm in favor of trading down is...I simply don't believe strongly in the guys at the top so if I can get something worthwhile to move down and pick a guy that still seems pretty good then I'm in. I really don't know if there will be a deal out there that makes it worth doing that though. I'm coming around to Wiseman or another big with whatever top pick we end up with. If I ended up with Toppin and got a legit asset for moving down I wouldn't totally hate that if that was sort of a worst case scenario. I agree with you trade down is nice in theory but...who knows. I fully admit it's sort of a easy position to take because...realistically it's pretty theoretical especially at this point since the draft process hasn't really happened and IDK how much of it will happen. I saw middle of November was the newest considered date for the draft?

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

According to The Ringer, LaMelo Ball was in the 4th percentile in defending spot-up shot attempts and below the 1st percentile in defending pick-and-rolls during his 12-game stretch in the NBL. How is it possible to be that fucking atrocious on defense? That's not just bad. That's downright unplayable, especially when you consider the talent level over there is a fraction of what exists in the NBA.

That along with his completely broken shot is enough to turn me away from him altogether. How is he going to be successful in the NBA let alone become a star player? He can't consistently beat defenders off the bounce because he lacks above average athleticism. He can't make shots from the perimeter because he has the mechanics of a middle schooler. He can't defend on ball or off ball. He's a good rebounder for his position thanks to his 6'7 frame and he's a quality facilitator/passer albeit a less valuable skill if he's unable to present himself to be a viable scoring threat.

I can't understand why he's considered one of the top prospects in this draft class. Is it the high school hype? Is it the social media fame? Is it the family name? It must be one of those factors because if we're judging him off of what he's done on a basketball court even in a limited sample size he's not worthy of being in that discussion.

Edit: Ball is a 6'7 Ricky Rubio that can't defend or a 6'7 Trae Young that can't shoot. Either way, you won't be winning m(any) games if he's one of your best players.

These are some bad numbers but it's still12 games. I'm not sure he is that poor of an athlete but I get where you are coming from. I think the path to Ball being worth the hype is a legit passing playmaker with a SF length is plenty intriguing. His shot certainly looks less bad than his older brother who has it figured out to some extent at least from 3. Because he simply hasn't played a ton for like 3years to me Ball is about the "Potential". This isn't me saying I want him (even though I have said that before) just the angle If why he is considered a high level prospect. Some of your general thinking on Melo is actually why I had questions about Lonzo being able to become a star...so why pick him so high especially with a guy like Fox available...

monster, that's 12 games where he wasn't just a bad defender, but arguably the absolute worst defender in the league over that span. That's not just a bad stretch where a guy is having a couple off games. That's a combination of miserable effort and a lack of understanding how to play on that end entirely. And it's not a new issue with him. His own father, LaVar, has been bitching at him about his defense since he was an underclassman at Chino Hills!

I also have to question that comment comparing LaMelo's shot to Lonzo's. The older brother knocked down a super respectable 41.2 percent of his threes -- on 5.4 attempts per game -- as a freshman at UCLA. In contrast, LaMelo made a paltry 25.0 percent on 6.7 attempts per game in the NBL. Shooting more and making less isn't a positive thing. The two aren't even comparable as I see it. One showed a competent ability to bury shots from deep and the other chucked up brick after brick. That doesn't instill confidence in me that he's going to suddenly turn it around to where it's a strength within his game.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Also, it's obviously not mandatory or anything, but if you vote for the "trade down" option as many of you have, I think it would be beneficial to know what player you're targeting in that move and what asset you could realistically expect in return.

Trading down always sounds nice in theory, but you have to have a plan in place and a partner that it makes sense for. I'd like to hear those cases. I might have a counterargument for some of them.

Cam I really don't know who I would target in a trade down because I have no idea what reasonable asset I would get for moving down and who would actually be available. If I ended up with Haliburton after a trade down and got some sort of future asset I would do that. I'd likely do that for Okongwu as well...of course those guys could be gone. The real reason I'm in favor of trading down is...I simply don't believe strongly in the guys at the top so if I can get something worthwhile to move down and pick a guy that still seems pretty good then I'm in. I really don't know if there will be a deal out there that makes it worth doing that though. I'm coming around to Wiseman or another big with whatever top pick we end up with. If I ended up with Toppin and got a legit asset for moving down I wouldn't totally hate that if that was sort of a worst case scenario. I agree with you trade down is nice in theory but...who knows. I fully admit it's sort of a easy position to take because...realistically it's pretty theoretical especially at this point since the draft process hasn't really happened and IDK how much of it will happen. I saw middle of November was the newest considered date for the draft?

I like Tyrese Haliburton a lot and would likely be making more of a pitch for him if the Wolves didn't already have D'Angelo Russell. Haliburton has no discernible weakness in his game although his quickness with the ball can be disputed. He would be a prime trade down candidate in that scenario, though. Otherwise, I think that would be a mistake.

But yeah, you nail the reasons why choosing the "trade down" option isn't as easy as we'd like it to be. We have no idea who will be available at what draft slot and what asset Minnesota could get in moving down. And even worse is that Gersson Rosas doesn't know either right now! That's why I'm asking for people's plans because there are so many variables at play. Trading down and missing, especially when you're slotted to pick number one overall, is also a perfect way to lose your job in the NBA.

[Monster]

According to The Ringer, LaMelo Ball was in the 4th percentile in defending spot-up shot attempts and below the 1st percentile in defending pick-and-rolls during his 12-game stretch in the NBL. How is it possible to be that fucking atrocious on defense? That's not just bad. That's downright unplayable, especially when you consider the talent level over there is a fraction of what exists in the NBA.

That along with his completely broken shot is enough to turn me away from him altogether. How is he going to be successful in the NBA let alone become a star player? He can't consistently beat defenders off the bounce because he lacks above average athleticism. He can't make shots from the perimeter because he has the mechanics of a middle schooler. He can't defend on ball or off ball. He's a good rebounder for his position thanks to his 6'7 frame and he's a quality facilitator/passer albeit a less valuable skill if he's unable to present himself to be a viable scoring threat.

I can't understand why he's considered one of the top prospects in this draft class. Is it the high school hype? Is it the social media fame? Is it the family name? It must be one of those factors because if we're judging him off of what he's done on a basketball court even in a limited sample size he's not worthy of being in that discussion.

Edit: Ball is a 6'7 Ricky Rubio that can't defend or a 6'7 Trae Young that can't shoot. Either way, you won't be winning m(any) games if he's one of your best players.

These are some bad numbers but it's still12 games. I'm not sure he is that poor of an athlete but I get where you are coming from. I think the path to Ball being worth the hype is a legit passing playmaker with a SF length is plenty intriguing. His shot certainly looks less bad than his older brother who has it figured out to some extent at least from 3. Because he simply hasn't played a ton for like 3years to me Ball is about the "Potential". This isn't me saying I want him (even though I have said that before) just the angle If why he is considered a high level prospect. Some of your general thinking on Melo is actually why I had questions about Lonzo being able to become a star...so why pick him so high especially with a guy like Fox available...

monster, that's 12 games where he wasn't just a bad defender, but arguably the absolute worst defender in the league over that span. That's not just a bad stretch where a guy is having a couple off games. That's a combination of miserable effort and a lack of understanding how to play on that end entirely. And it's not a new issue with him. His own father, LaVar, has been bitching at him about his defense since he was an underclassman at Chino Hills!

I also have to question that comment comparing LaMelo's shot to Lonzo's. The older brother knocked down a super respectable 41.2 percent of his threes -- on 5.4 attempts per game -- as a freshman at UCLA. In contrast, LaMelo made a paltry 25.0 percent on 6.7 attempts per game in the NBL. Shooting more and making less isn't a positive thing. The two aren't even comparable as I see it. One showed a competent ability to bury shots from deep and the other chucked up brick after brick. That doesn't instill confidence in me that he's going to suddenly turn it around to where it's a strength within his game.

Those are some good considerations. What distance is the NBL 3 point line? Wouldn't that have been farther than the college 3 point line that Lonzo shot from? Not a huge deal but something to at least consider.

There are plenty of guys with good looking shots that couldn't make them in the NBA. On the other hand I remember years ago I thought there was no way Ed O'bannon was gonna be a star or a very good scoring guy in the NBA with that weird shot he had. I'm sure he had other deficiencies since he was out of the NBA after only 2 years after being a top 10 pick.

[Monster]

Also, it's obviously not mandatory or anything, but if you vote for the "trade down" option as many of you have, I think it would be beneficial to know what player you're targeting in that move and what asset you could realistically expect in return.

Trading down always sounds nice in theory, but you have to have a plan in place and a partner that it makes sense for. I'd like to hear those cases. I might have a counterargument for some of them.

Cam I really don't know who I would target in a trade down because I have no idea what reasonable asset I would get for moving down and who would actually be available. If I ended up with Haliburton after a trade down and got some sort of future asset I would do that. I'd likely do that for Okongwu as well...of course those guys could be gone. The real reason I'm in favor of trading down is...I simply don't believe strongly in the guys at the top so if I can get something worthwhile to move down and pick a guy that still seems pretty good then I'm in. I really don't know if there will be a deal out there that makes it worth doing that though. I'm coming around to Wiseman or another big with whatever top pick we end up with. If I ended up with Toppin and got a legit asset for moving down I wouldn't totally hate that if that was sort of a worst case scenario. I agree with you trade down is nice in theory but...who knows. I fully admit it's sort of a easy position to take because...realistically it's pretty theoretical especially at this point since the draft process hasn't really happened and IDK how much of it will happen. I saw middle of November was the newest considered date for the draft?

I like Tyrese Haliburton a lot and would likely be making more of a pitch for him if the Wolves didn't already have D'Angelo Russell. Haliburton has no discernible weakness in his game although his quickness with the ball can be disputed. He would be a prime trade down candidate in that scenario, though. Otherwise, I think that would be a mistake.

But yeah, you nail the reasons why choosing the "trade down" option isn't as easy as we'd like it to be. We have no idea who will be available at what draft slot and what asset Minnesota could get in moving down. And even worse is that Gersson Rosas doesn't know either right now! That's why I'm asking for people's plans because there are so many variables at play. Trading down and missing, especially when you're slotted to pick number one overall, is also a perfect way to lose your job in the NBA.

To me the other problem with a trade down is...adding picks to this current draft creates a problem. What can you reasonably hope to do with them? A trade back up could be worthwhile...but again who knows if the guys that you may want would be there. Would you be able to even trade up? Would teams play hard ball knowing you aren't gonna be making 4-5 picks to add to the roster. To me I would be much more interested in trading down if I got a future pick even if it wasn't particularly high especially if it was for 2021 although that draft could be a crapshoot. If we got some sort of young vet (Or any better with some value) that could help now even if I might not se them as a core type guy wouldn't hurt. I'm not looking for a win now deal exactly but it makes sense to find small ways to get better because we can't just suck forever. So a deal like a trade down that the Nets did for Eddie Griffin doesn't sound great because we already have 2 other picks. If we could do a trade down for a Luka or Fultz type return Where we get a pick next year and move down 2 spots count me in. I'm sure there would be someone I would be happy taking at 3 or maybe even 4...theoretically speaking. Again...we have now idea what might be available in a few weeks for these types of deals. I'll add that I'm starting to like Okongwu quite a bit and also warming up to the idea of ending up with Wiseman though too.

[Lipoli390]

Also, it's obviously not mandatory or anything, but if you vote for the "trade down" option as many of you have, I think it would be beneficial to know what player you're targeting in that move and what asset you could realistically expect in return.

Trading down always sounds nice in theory, but you have to have a plan in place and a partner that it makes sense for. I'd like to hear those cases. I might have a counterargument for some of them.

I've already indicated that I'd target Okongwu as my pick in a trade-down scenario while also acquiring a talented young player or draft picks. Here are some more specific scenarios I think I've mentioned in other threads:

1. NY KNICKS
Knicks get #1, Jacob Evans & Omari Spellman
Wolves get #8 (Vassell, Deni or Haliburton), Knicks 2021 1st (top 3 protected) & Kevin Knox

2. DETROIT
Pistons get #1, Jacob Evans & Omari Spellman
Wolves get #7 (Okongwu, Vassell, Deni or Haliburton) & Luke Kennard

3. ATLANTA HAWKS
Hawks get #1, Jacob Evans & Omari Spellman
Wolves get #6 (Okongwu, Vassell, Deni or Haliburton) & Huerter or Collins
Another variation - Wolves add Johnson and get Capella instead of Huerter or Collins

4. CLEVELAND CAVS
Cavs get #1, Jacob Evans & Omari Spellman
Wolves get #5 (Okongwu), Kevin Porter Jr., Wizards' 2022 2nd round pick

5. CHICAGO BULLS
Bulls get #1, Jacob Evans & Omari Spellman
Wolves get #4 (Okongwu), Valentine & Bulls 2021 2nd round pick

I don't think we'd end up with Okongwu below #5 and that would give me pause. I like Vassell and Haliburton. I see both as near can't miss role players, but I don't see either one becoming an all-star. I see a potential all-star in Deni, but I also see potential bust in him given his poor shooting to date and lack of EuroLeague playing time to fully evaluate him. Okongwu would be the key for me because I see him as having all-star potential and a pretty high (bust-proof) floor.

So I'm not sure I'd do any of these deals without knowing that I could get Okongwu in return. I would probably do the Knicks deal for any of the others because getting back into next year's draft with a lottery pick would be a big plus for the Wolves. Whether the Knicks would go for that deal depends on how much they covet Ball or Edwards and whether they could get a better deal from the Warriors. I'd also probably do the Atlanta deal even without Okongwu because of the value I think Huerter would add to the Wolves. I'd definitely do the deal with Atlanta if we could add Johnson and get Capella in return, in which case we wouldn't need Okongwu but could take Haliburton, Vassell or Deni.

I draft prospect I haven't mentioned is Killian Hayes. I'm increasingly intrigued by his potential. His EuroLeague stats are really good at his young age. His game is really similar to Russell's, so I'm not sure I like the idea of him teaming with Russell in the backcourt. But it's a thought if the Wolves decide to trade down.

I'd be interested in your take on these scenarios.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

According to The Ringer, LaMelo Ball was in the 4th percentile in defending spot-up shot attempts and below the 1st percentile in defending pick-and-rolls during his 12-game stretch in the NBL. How is it possible to be that fucking atrocious on defense? That's not just bad. That's downright unplayable, especially when you consider the talent level over there is a fraction of what exists in the NBA.

That along with his completely broken shot is enough to turn me away from him altogether. How is he going to be successful in the NBA let alone become a star player? He can't consistently beat defenders off the bounce because he lacks above average athleticism. He can't make shots from the perimeter because he has the mechanics of a middle schooler. He can't defend on ball or off ball. He's a good rebounder for his position thanks to his 6'7 frame and he's a quality facilitator/passer albeit a less valuable skill if he's unable to present himself to be a viable scoring threat.

I can't understand why he's considered one of the top prospects in this draft class. Is it the high school hype? Is it the social media fame? Is it the family name? It must be one of those factors because if we're judging him off of what he's done on a basketball court even in a limited sample size he's not worthy of being in that discussion.

Edit: Ball is a 6'7 Ricky Rubio that can't defend or a 6'7 Trae Young that can't shoot. Either way, you won't be winning m(any) games if he's one of your best players.

Completely agree: I don't want any part of Ball. His passing is special, no doubt, especially at his length. Probably the best single skill of any player in this draft, which I think is probably what is getting him the attention from respected commentators. It does signify very good court vision, and some people think that translates to intelligence, but I'm not so sure that's always the case. I do agree that you want to have smart players if you can get them, but he has so many weaknesses and they are so glaring. He's a horrific defender with literally zero motor on that end, his shooting form actually hurts my eyes to watch, his shot-selection is obscene for someone with such a bad shot. He makes Anthony Edwards look like Ray fucking Allen. I mean, he does rebound ok for a PG, but he's so weak physically he'll just get absolutely abused in the league unless he puts on a ton of weight and actually tries. And his personality just turns me off completely. The Rubio without defense or Trae without the shooting are fair comps. I was actually thinking DLO without shooting. Or post-injury Shaun Livingston with better passing but no real mid-range game. All finesse. We could be wrong. And if he does end up panning out, his passing will be fun to watch. But I'd much rather have another team take that risk, especially with Edwards and Wiseman on the board and the possibility of trading down out there.

[BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520]]

I'm looking forward to 10 games into the season when we say, "look at player X doing so well with team Y. I told you guys we should have taken him."

[Volans19]

I would take Wiseman, but let me go on record saying Rosas will take Ball if he keeps the pick.

If he does that, I'm out on Rosas. I'm not sure why people are so hyped about Ball (besides his family's celebrity) he plays no defense and can't shoot.