Wiseman is ducking the Wolves according to Doogie and Windhorst

[Monster]

Towns played with Dieng a guy that is at best half the athlete that Wiseman is. How many games has Towns played with a so called modern PF? How has that worked out? Bjelly is probably the guy he played best next to Of that sort and that was a handful of games. It's not exactly THAT far fetched to see him play with another true big guy again.

If Wiseman thinks he is good and I certainly hope he does...if he turns into a legit stud and he doesn't fit with Towns...guess who the Wolves are gonna trade? It might be Towns and if I was Wiseman The idea of trading Towns sounds good because the return could be massive.

I'm pretty sure Wiseman is also not wanting to play in GS because they are always jacking their young bigs around. What if he can't get minutes over Draymond and Kevon Looney? Of course I am kinda joking here but seriously some of this stuff doesn't always add up. In addition I don't give a shit about these reports. If he is the best talent draft him or get the most assets out of him you can at #1. I've wondered if GS would be interested in trading up. Idk what we could get but it would be interesting to find out what they would offer. I'm hoping the hornets get crazy and offer something good.

[Lipoli390]

It's interesting to speculate about "fit." But the really good NBA organizations draft for talent when making high lottery picks. Then they make things fit with style of play and bringing in the right blend of supporting role players. This isn't rocket science.

As for fit, does Ball or Edwards fit better with Russell and Beasley than Wiseman fits with KAT? Would Toppin be a better fit than Wiseman next to KAT. Toppin is certainly more of a modern NBA big with his three-point shooting. But his defense is questionable. Does it make sense to pair the defensively challenged KAT with another defensively challenged big? Okongwu was a good defender as a college freshman and looks like he'll be a very good NBA defender. But he hasn't shown much shooting range and has doesn't yet look like a modern NBA big.

Actually, I'd be happy with any of those three bigs - Wiseman, Okongwu or Toppin. The Wolves would have to do different things to make the most out of each. But in the end, it's about talent and having the #1 pick this year presents an opportunity to draft a prospect with the potential to become this team's third all-star caliber player. No matter who they draft, I wouldn't expect him to have a significant impact as a rookie. That will come in a year or two. In the meantime, it will be up to Towns, Russell, Beasley, Culver, Okogie, Layman and whoever the Wolves sign with their MLE to get this team to contend for a 7th or 8th playoff seed. That's something the Wolves can build on with whoever they get with their three picks this year.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Good stuff already mentioned here. I would expect James Wiseman to have a moderate to considerable impact even as a rookie just on sheer size and athleticism alone. 7'1 with a 7'6 wingspan and fluidity that humans his size shouldn't possess. He'll make plenty of mistakes and boneheaded plays along the way because that's what first-year players do, but I would be surprised if he didn't average something like 14.0 PPG, 10.0 RPG, 2.0 BPG, and 1.0 SPG with solid shooting splits as a third or fourth option offensively and a positive DBPM. All of which would be better than what Juan Hernangomez gave us as a starter last year. Also, the added length in the frontcourt should theoretically result in more altered shots and smaller passing windows for opposing teams. You just can't teach that physical profile. Some guys have it or they don't and if/when they do they're almost always a problem for other teams right out of the gate.

[Lipoli390]

Good stuff already mentioned here. I would expect James Wiseman to have a moderate to considerable impact even as a rookie just on sheer size and athleticism alone. 7'1 with a 7'6 wingspan and fluidity that humans his size shouldn't possess. He'll make plenty of mistakes and boneheaded plays along the way because that's what first-year players do, but I would be surprised if he didn't average something like 14.0 PPG, 10.0 RPG, 2.0 BPG, and 1.0 SPG with solid shooting splits as a third or fourth option offensively and a positive DBPM. All of which would be better than what Juan Hernangomez gave us as a starter last year. Also, the added length in the frontcourt should theoretically result in more altered shots and smaller passing windows for opposing teams. You just can't teach that physical profile. Some guys have it or they don't and if/when they do they're almost always a problem for other teams right out of the gate.

You make a good point about Wiseman's possible impact as a rookie. His combination of freakish length and high level athleticism makes that possible. I also think Toppin could have a significant impact as a rookie given his age, skill set and NBA body. I think it's less likely that Okongwu would have an immediate impact. I see him on more of a Bam Adebayo trajectory, which means little impact as a rookie, some impact in his second year and a breakout impact 3rd season. But even Okongwu could have an impact his rookie year with his shot-blocking.

I just don't like to expect an impact from any rookie. And importantly, this team should be much improved even without an impact from any of their picks this year. Okogie is entering his third season, which is typically when a player shows his biggest improvement. Culver is entering his second season, which is also when a lot of players take a big step forward. Russell will have a full season rather than just the 12 games he played with us last season. And he'll be playing with our best player, Towns, all season instead of just the one game they played together last season. Layman was injuries most of last season while Naz Reid and JMac were just starting to emerge. I'm leaving Beasley out of the equation for now because of his legal situation, but adding him to the mix would be a positive. Then there's the MLE.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Good stuff already mentioned here. I would expect James Wiseman to have a moderate to considerable impact even as a rookie just on sheer size and athleticism alone. 7'1 with a 7'6 wingspan and fluidity that humans his size shouldn't possess. He'll make plenty of mistakes and boneheaded plays along the way because that's what first-year players do, but I would be surprised if he didn't average something like 14.0 PPG, 10.0 RPG, 2.0 BPG, and 1.0 SPG with solid shooting splits as a third or fourth option offensively and a positive DBPM. All of which would be better than what Juan Hernangomez gave us as a starter last year. Also, the added length in the frontcourt should theoretically result in more altered shots and smaller passing windows for opposing teams. You just can't teach that physical profile. Some guys have it or they don't and if/when they do they're almost always a problem for other teams right out of the gate.

You make a good point about Wiseman's possible impact as a rookie. His combination of freakish length and high level athleticism makes that possible. I also think Toppin could have a significant impact as a rookie given his age, skill set and NBA body. I think it's less likely that Okongwu would have an immediate impact. I see him on more of a Bam Adebayo trajectory, which means little impact as a rookie, some impact in his second year and a breakout impact 3rd season. But even Okongwu could have an impact his rookie year with his shot-blocking.

I just don't like to expect an impact from any rookie. And importantly, this team should be much improved even without an impact from any of their picks this year. Okogie is entering his third season, which is typically when a player shows his biggest improvement. Culver is entering his second season, which is also when a lot of players take a big step forward. Russell will have a full season rather than just the 12 games he played with us last season. And he'll be playing with our best player, Towns, all season instead of just the one game they played together last season. Layman was injuries most of last season while Naz Reid and JMac were just starting to emerge. I'm leaving Beasley out of the equation for now because of his legal situation, but adding him to the mix would be a positive. Then there's the MLE.

I'm with you, Lip. I fully expect next season's Wolves to be objectively better than last season's team for the reasons you provided. Even just getting a full season of D'Angelo Russell should make a big difference, in my opinion.

It's also a lot easier for role players to make a positive impact when they don't have to occasionally step up and try to shoulder the load, so to speak. We know that Karl-Anthony Towns will play at an All-Star or All-NBA level, but Russell being a more consistent overall player than Andrew Wiggins will allow guys down the pecking order to play within themselves instead of being forced to do too much to compensate when Wiggins just didn't show up. Specifically, I think the Wolves saw that dynamic play out with Robert Covington last season and it resulted in him being less affective.

That's certainly a good thing because the Wolves have some decent role players already in Malik Beasley, Jordan McLaughlin, James Johnson, and Josh Okogie. Where each of them get in trouble is if they're forced to do too much. I think that will be less of a problem in 2021.

[mrhockey89]

If someone is avoiding the Wolves that should be a green light to draft him. It means he's a pretty smart dude! Didn't Curry do the same thing?

Not going to lie Q, I laughed.

And yep, Curry did the same thing, and was a reason that Kahn listed for not drafting him. But hey, at least we got Johnny Flynn.

And Rubio! And Ty Lawson!

If you guys wanna torture yourselves more this awful year, go back and look at the whole 2009 draft and see the former wolves and the 2nd rounders we passed on. It didn't stop after Curry.

I don't have a problem with the Rubio pick, and still feel like that was the right pick. The problem was that they picked Flynn #6 over Curry (a historic 3 point shooter and great passer to go with a playmaking passer who defers like Rubio would have been great if you ask me). Thinking back at that draft off memory, I can't think of anyone else available at #6 that would have been a more obvious pick than Curry there, aside potentially DeRozan (who would have also been a much better pick than Flynn). I was actually impressed that Kahn was able to turn an aging Mike Miller (who was going to leave in a year anyway) and Randy Foye into the #5 pick (Rubio). It's a shame he blew the other side of that at #6.

I agree, Hockey. I was at the Wolves draft party back then. The Rubio pick whipped the crowd into a state of euphoria. Then the crowd quickly turned to chants of Curry, Curry. Just about everyone there thought the Wolves would and should draft Curry. But then David Kahn did his thing.

Note that Curry's reason for not wanting the Wolves to draft him had nothing to with the Wolves as a franchise or the Minnesota weather. His only reason was that he wanted to play PG and the Wolves had just drafted Rubio. That shouldn't have mattered to Kahn. You draft the guy you consider the best player for your franchise regardless of that player's preference.

Definitely would have been an amazing draft with Rubio+Curry, and something tells me that would have been a dangerous offensive pair...as if Curry isn't a good enough 3 point shooter while on the ball, imagine Rubio getting him regular open 3's.

I'm curious about something you said with Curry. When you say he didn't want to play her not because of the weather/franchise, but because he drafted Rubio. I am sure that he didn't want to for that reason, however I seem to recall Del Curry having him refuse the Wolves a pre-draft workout because he didn't want Steph playing for the Wolves (presumably because he didn't trust their front office at the time), which would have been before Rubio dropped to our pick (I recall at the time Washington was upset that they assumed Rubio would be gone at #5, which is why they were willing to trade the pick...I believe that was around the time they lost Agent 0).

I also agree with you completely that the Wolves should draft whoever will help the franchise the most. I seem to recall a certain Portland team that passed up on a shooting guard from UNC in the '80s, after all..they had Clyde Drexler. I'll go ahead and guess they wish they had a mulligan on that one. Not suggesting Wiseman is the next MJ, but it is a classic example of two players at the same position where you just take the best player and figure the fit out later. (with that said, Wiseman and KAT's strengths/weaknesses compliment each other much better than MJ/Clyde)

[mrhockey89]

I think giving in to a young player's demands has less to do with THAT specific player... and more to do with the rest of that player's client list.

If one player hates your organization... meh. But if that agent is upset with you, how fairly will he treat the organization when it comes to another client?

I believe Jeff Schwartz is Wiseman's agent. His client list:
https://basketball.realgm.com/info/agent-client-list/Jeff-Schwartz/23

I don't totally disagree here, but ultimately the goal is to build a winner. If you avoid an agent's client in the draft as a favor at the expense of the better talent, that team is more likely to stay a loser. Additionally, I'm pretty sure if the Wolves somehow turn their young core into an up and coming contender, the agent won't be pushing the Wolves out of the mix with other clients, or he will be more likely to lose the clients.

It's not like the Wolves would be drafting Wiseman to have him ride the pine all season. If Naz Reid can log major minutes with this team, then Wiseman sure can. KAT really fits a hybrid 4/5, and Wiseman is a true 5. It's not like we haven't seen something relatively similar in the past with Towns and Willie Cauley-Stein.

[mrhockey89]

It's interesting to speculate about "fit." But the really good NBA organizations draft for talent when making high lottery picks. Then they make things fit with style of play and bringing in the right blend of supporting role players. This isn't rocket science.

As for fit, does Ball or Edwards fit better with Russell and Beasley than Wiseman fits with KAT? Would Toppin be a better fit than Wiseman next to KAT. Toppin is certainly more of a modern NBA big with his three-point shooting. But his defense is questionable. Does it make sense to pair the defensively challenged KAT with another defensively challenged big? Okongwu was a good defender as a college freshman and looks like he'll be a very good NBA defender. But he hasn't shown much shooting range and has doesn't yet look like a modern NBA big.

Actually, I'd be happy with any of those three bigs - Wiseman, Okongwu or Toppin. The Wolves would have to do different things to make the most out of each. But in the end, it's about talent and having the #1 pick this year presents an opportunity to draft a prospect with the potential to become this team's third all-star caliber player. No matter who they draft, I wouldn't expect him to have a significant impact as a rookie. That will come in a year or two. In the meantime, it will be up to Towns, Russell, Beasley, Culver, Okogie, Layman and whoever the Wolves sign with their MLE to get this team to contend for a 7th or 8th playoff seed. That's something the Wolves can build on with whoever they get with their three picks this year.

I agree with this Lip. I'd be happy with Wiseman at #1, but would be concerned about both Ball and Edwards (I view Edwards as a ball stopping, low efficiency scorer ala a rich man's Ricky Davis, and I'm not completely sure how I feel about Ball but I don't view him as the best player and view his fit as more mercurial than that of Wiseman). If we trade down, I'd be happy with Toppin (good fit, but bad defense) or Okongwu.

[Monster]

It's interesting to speculate about "fit." But the really good NBA organizations draft for talent when making high lottery picks. Then they make things fit with style of play and bringing in the right blend of supporting role players. This isn't rocket science.

As for fit, does Ball or Edwards fit better with Russell and Beasley than Wiseman fits with KAT? Would Toppin be a better fit than Wiseman next to KAT. Toppin is certainly more of a modern NBA big with his three-point shooting. But his defense is questionable. Does it make sense to pair the defensively challenged KAT with another defensively challenged big? Okongwu was a good defender as a college freshman and looks like he'll be a very good NBA defender. But he hasn't shown much shooting range and has doesn't yet look like a modern NBA big.

Actually, I'd be happy with any of those three bigs - Wiseman, Okongwu or Toppin. The Wolves would have to do different things to make the most out of each. But in the end, it's about talent and having the #1 pick this year presents an opportunity to draft a prospect with the potential to become this team's third all-star caliber player. No matter who they draft, I wouldn't expect him to have a significant impact as a rookie. That will come in a year or two. In the meantime, it will be up to Towns, Russell, Beasley, Culver, Okogie, Layman and whoever the Wolves sign with their MLE to get this team to contend for a 7th or 8th playoff seed. That's something the Wolves can build on with whoever they get with their three picks this year.

One of the reasons to talk about "fit" is that's part Of what drives the narrative that the Wolves aren't going to take Wiseman. Part of that is Towns is here and part is the system. Let's look at it another way. How would people feel about putting Porzingis next to Towns? Is that modern enough? Sure Porzingis had more of a track record shooting the 3 than Wiseman does but part of what made me think Porzingis was going to make an impact sooner than others and why I thought he was a special prospect was his sheer length. He was well over 7' tall with a 7'6 wingspan. Wiseman unless he has grown in any quite that big but he is just a hair under 7' tall with the same wingspan. That makes him a few inches longer than Towns and some might argue Wisemen is more athletic as well. The other supposed top guy in Edwards and Ball shooting is a concern. I'm probably less concerned about Edwards than Ball but this franchise has struggled with that aspect and those guards don't scream shooter. Wiseman has a reasonably good look shot it's not like he is just some guy that started working on it because it's the thing every guy wants to have in the modern game. I've seen enough in wiseman's workout takes that makes me think he really does have some special offensive potential. What chance do ai think he becomes a truest dynamic offensive player? Idk 25%? That's still a good chance and meanwhile he could still be a really valuable player in other ways too with his length. There are multiple paths for Wiseman to be an all NBA player. The guards have fewer paths because if they bust...they Really bust...because they wont have a ton of value as poor offensive players that struggle on D.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Bad teams routinely have players that dont want to play for them. Its a unique problem for losers in all sports. The core of the story is probably true and it is likely becoming a bit complicated for the Wolves to deal with it. If Wiseman is there top guy I hope they have the balls to draft him anyway, but history probably isnt working in our favor on this one. Im sure the Wolves have communicated with Wiseman already. But if Im him, of course Id rather play for the Warriors. He'd get tons of playing time on a winner if hes as good a people here are trying to make him out to be.

I'm going to go all Kahnsy on you here.....Wiseman has literally no leverage. If anything, his not wanting to come to Minnesota makes me want to draft him even more because a) it sends a signal to other future prospects that we don't give a shit about your silly preferences - that's not how it works in the NBA, b) it also sends a signal to other agents, front offices and media folks that fan the flames of this type of narrative that we could care less, and c) they can still trade him anyway.

Stay strong Gupta!

Amen

If he was so worried about playing time, then why did he opt out of college ball?

I'm sure he would rather have the extra 10 mil in hand as the #1. Hell, his family could not afford to scrape up the 11,500 the NCAA wanted paid back. Though I still think that whole decision was horseshit, and robbed us of a definitive decision of Wiseman being the best talent.

Maybe

I think giving in to a young player's demands has less to do with THAT specific player... and more to do with the rest of that player's client list.

If one player hates your organization... meh. But if that agent is upset with you, how fairly will he treat the organization when it comes to another client?

I believe Jeff Schwartz is Wiseman's agent. His client list:
https://basketball.realgm.com/info/agent-client-list/Jeff-Schwartz/23

I don't totally disagree here, but ultimately the goal is to build a winner. If you avoid an agent's client in the draft as a favor at the expense of the better talent, that team is more likely to stay a loser. Additionally, I'm pretty sure if the Wolves somehow turn their young core into an up and coming contender, the agent won't be pushing the Wolves out of the mix with other clients, or he will be more likely to lose the clients.

It's not like the Wolves would be drafting Wiseman to have him ride the pine all season. If Naz Reid can log major minutes with this team, then Wiseman sure can. KAT really fits a hybrid 4/5, and Wiseman is a true 5. It's not like we haven't seen something relatively similar in the past with Towns and Willie Cauley-Stein.

I'm not suggesting the Wolves should cower from any agent... only that the agent's connections is part of NBA basketball.

We've already seen for 10+ years how the Wolves placating agents and playing nice with veteran buyouts really hasn't materialized with favorable treatment down the line anyway.