If not Simmons, who do we trade for?

[thedoper]

I hate the idea of making Ben Simmons our PG. The simple solution is make Simmons a 4. I agree with Cam that trading DLo for Simmons with the plan of making him a PG doesnt make us better and it probably exposes our shooting problems even more.

I would personally empty the rest of the cupboards for Simmons though. More teams would have to get involved but I have no problems ditching everyone outside of the core 3 and tons of draft capital to get Simmons.

[Wolvesfan21]

I hate the idea of making Ben Simmons our PG. The simple solution is make Simmons a 4. I agree with Cam that trading DLo for Simmons with the plan of making him a PG doesnt make us better and it probably exposes our shooting problems even more.

I would personally empty the rest of the cupboards for Simmons though. More teams would have to get involved but I have no problems ditching everyone outside of the core 3 and tons of draft capital to get Simmons.

I don't trust that this new DLO is the guy who will be here over the long term. There is a chance he could, but I'd rather bet on the proven commodity of Simmons. Even Simmons "could" start hitting 3's. Not likely either.

You can find 3 and D players for less than we are paying DLO. So in that sense I would be willing to swap, then sign or trade for more role players that fit.

Just think if you thought our defense was good now, place Simmons in it. The 76ers are struggling without him as well. He moves the needle, he's a winner.

[Hicks123 [enjin:6700838]]

I think where some get stuck is thinking any trade really matters for current year. I don't think there is a player available that can move the needle enough to make us an instant contender. We need to think about any trade as a future progression.

Thus, I think when evaluating a trade for a guy like Simmons, we can't think about impact to potential issues created THIS YEAR. I agree that a swap of Simmons for DLo makes us a worse 3 point shooting team this year. But who cares really. What needs to be evaluated is if we can better build around DLo or Simmons for future years. We know in trading for Simmons, we would need to bolster our long range shooting in coming years. Question should be....can we put shooters around him in future seasons.

As I think about the 2 players (Dlo or Simmons), need to decide if easier to add shooters or a defensive big to fill out starting roster. Not sure of answer. I tend to think it is easier to add a shooter. I think defensive bigs can be had fairly cheap, but they tend to be extremely limited in any other skill.

[Coolbreeze44]

This "new" DLO is shooting 38% from the floor, and 32% from three. Is there any chance we can get the old one back? Those figures are less than Ricky Rubio's career averages. And Ricky does most everything else better.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Why do some (not all) of the D'Angelo Russell detractors keep moving the goalpost? How many debates were had on here over his net rating and plus-minus stats? After all, there was a group of fans here that were passionate in referencing those numbers when they went against the guy. That's not the case anymore so we're bitching about something else.

Minnesota outscores opponents by 8.3 points per 100 possessions with Russell on the court. The Wolves are outscored by 12.5 points when he's off the court. That 20.8 net rating difference is the third-best in the entire league behind Nikola Jokic and Giannis Antetokounmpo.

Do I think Russell's the third-best player in basketball based on those numbers? Of course not. I maintain that those metrics don't tell the whole story as they ignore quite a bit of context -- as they always have. If you're a D-Lo detractor and plus-minus enthusiast, and you're still hating on Russell, then you've lost whatever credibility you had.

[Wolvesfan21]

This "new" DLO is shooting 38% from the floor, and 32% from three. Is there any chance we can get the old one back? Those figures are less than Ricky Rubio's career averages. And Ricky does most everything else better.

The ISO chucker who doesn't play defense?

[Coolbreeze44]

This "new" DLO is shooting 38% from the floor, and 32% from three. Is there any chance we can get the old one back? Those figures are less than Ricky Rubio's career averages. And Ricky does most everything else better.

The ISO chucker who doesn't play defense?

He's still a chucker, he just isn't making as many chucks. And I recognize he is trying to play defense, but it doesn't mean he is any good at it. But as you know WF, the biggest number is 11-15. Not good enough.

[FNG]

Ok, I've been reading the DLo for Simmons discussion and biting my tongue...but I can't resist. First of all, can we all agree that this is a theoretical discussion only? Philly is not going to make this deal.

Secondly, this discussion is about who is the better fit for the Wolves, not who is the better player, right? Take a look at the statistical comparison below, and it's easy to see there's no basis for discussion here. I get that Ben is a reluctant shooter, and that's the one area that DLo is farsuperior in. But the goal of shooting is to score points, and Ben's career TS% is far superior to DLo's. And of course Ben is superior to DLo in every other important measure too...rebounding, defense and facilitating.

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?player_id2=russeda01&player_id1=simmobe01&sum=0&request=1

Now, since I can sense a certain poster in Philadelphia about to weigh in with the argument that "spacing is what's most important, and the threat of DLo making a three (even if he's making less than a third of them this season) provides spacing that Simmons doesn't". I understand that argument on a theoretical basis, but the statistics don't seem to back it up. If having a space-creating PG is important for improving your team 3-point shooting, wouldn't you expect that Philly, after replacing non-shooting Simmons with Maxey (who is making over 37% of his threes this season), would be having more success beyond the arc this season? Instead, Philly's 3-point percentage is a rather significant 2.6% lower this season than last, despite almost identical rosters. Spacing is indeed important, but having a facilitator who can make the right pass at the right time is even more important, and Simmons has made a career of doing that.

A couple other responses to posts abive. Hicks, you say that a deal like this is more important for the future than this year, and I mostly agree. But I also think this hypothetical deal would easliy put us in the playoffs this year, and at the 36-win pace we're on so far despite a favorable schedule, playoffs don't seem likely without a needle-moving trade. And Cam, you posted that we are moving the goalposts in not mentioning DLo's stellar on/off numbers this year after having pointed out how poorly he looks in this measure the rest of his career. I think kekgeek and I alone have probably mentioned DLo's great on/off numbers this season dozens of times (and it seems to me we are the two posters who most often cite this cleaningtheglass stat), and others have pointed it out too. He's having a really good season with his clearly improved defense, and his impact has been positive despite poor shooting.

[Wolvesfan21]

What about Kyrie to Philly, DLO to Brooklyn and Simmons here.

Brooklyn might like DLO versus Simmons.

[FNG]

What about Kyrie to Philly, DLO to Brooklyn and Simmons here.

Brooklyn might like DLO versus Simmons.

I think that's intriguing. The Nets are in first place even without Kyrie, and adding another scorer who is also more focused on defense this year might be attractive. Harden would still be handling the point, but if they slotted in DLo for Bembry (at least until Harris returns, then maybe Mills goes to the bench), Harden would have a lot of nice 3-point shooters to feed. I think that trade would add 10 wins to both Minnesota and Philly, and also make Brooklyn even better. By the way, I think a DLo/Simmons trade would add 10 wins to each team too.