Camden wrote:Some fans didn't enjoy how the Wolves were winning games. Some players didn't enjoy how Jimmy Butler chose to lead.
I guess we see which side was wrong.
I'm not sure if it's so much not appreciating Butler's skill set, but rather not appreciating his seething attitude. Most of us agreed with Butler on the young teammates AAU attitude, but he was such a negative drain on everyone mentally. To me it's one thing to challenge his teammates and hold them accountable, but it's another to be a complete jackass.
That said, he's always been really good.
Fair but when you see the Heat start 3rd year player Bam, 2nd year player Robinson, rookie Herro and main bench rookie dunn play well its hard to give the Wolves players a pass
Exactly. KAT looks like a soft little baby in hindsight. The more I look at the evidence, the more he comes off as one of the biggest pretenders in the league. Hugely skilled? Yes. Winner? Zero evidence so far. And I don't see DLO as the antidote as he isn't exactly a model of intensity and toughness either.
But I don't see any appetite from the front office to give up on a tandem that hasn't even really played together yet. We'll see what happens next season, but I'm not optimistic.
Towns is the only guy left now so that's the guy to be concerned about and yeah this doesn't look good for him. I'll say though that I have a hard time not questioning the organization too and at the time that was led by Thibs. The whole thing blew up on his watch. He brought in Butler and it didn't work. I still think some part of the reason why Butler left was he didn't think Thibs was going to get the job done at some level. Meanwhile Jimmy is playing under a HOF GM and a coach that's likely heading there too IMO. Spolstra should have already been considered one of the elite coaches in the league but now people are seeing it even more. The Heat won a game and were competitive in the previous game without Bam. The organization has been able to get more out of guys than other places has and also been able to draft and develop guys.
Meanwhile...Butler is playing in a way that is starting to disprove the idea some people (Including myself to some extent) have put forth that he isn't good enough to be THE guy on a Championship team. One thing to consider is that right now the Heat are playing quite a few guys that are shooters so that likely opens things up for Butler to do his thing.
They still are not beating the Lakers so I think we will be proven right in the end. I never thought Jimmy as the guy would be able to carry a team to a championship. He's gotten closer to that then I thought though. But he has had a lot of help in a perfect situation. I highly doubt if he stayed here with Thibs the Wolves are in the Championship game now. ;)
You're really gonna fault a guy in that conversation because he can't beat 2 of the 5 best players in the league? The Lakers have 2 guys that can be the best player on a title contender. If that's the case with Jimmy how can Giannis be considered one of those guys considering he's never made a finals at this point?
To be fair though. Wasn't Miami the 5 seed? Do they even get past the first round without the bubble? How are they without Herro? Butler has been inconsistent throughout these playoffs as other guys like Bam and Herro have stepped up. They have a great coach, GM and team. Butler is just a piece of a nice puzzle, even a very good one. I wouldn't read too much into one game when the Lakers came out flat.
Let's see what happens in game 4 and 5. I'll say Lakers in 5.
I don't think Butler can carry a team for 82 to 100+ games and win a title.
That being said, there are very few guys in NBA history who have pulled off what he did last night on the biggest stage. We can blame a flat opponent or a fluke or fool's gold or whatever else... but we haven't even seen a team in MN get close to a Finals appearance... and we're pooh-poohing a triple-double in an upset win without two of the team's best players?
Butler leads Miami in pretty much every imaginable advanced stat for the playoffs: Win shares, VORP, PER, BPM, etc. He's the best player on a legit contending team. Obviously he hasn't done it alone, just like LeBron hasn't done it alone. But all one has to do is look at the "before and after" of the Wolves with and without Butler to know that he is a big-time difference maker.
It's possible for all of these statements to be true at the same time:
- Wiggins never even came close to living up to his max deal and failed to demonstrate a true commitment to playing the game hard.
- KAT has a fragile ego and is incapable of leading a team in a credible fashion.
- Thibs' personality was a bad fit with the young players he had to work with.
- Butler was a bad fit with the young players he had to work with and a franchise financially committed to them first.
- Butler ended his time with the Wolves in an immature and unprofessional way.
- Butler, by far, has the most positive impact in real games of the three players mentioned here.
It just didn't work, but with the benefit of hindsight, the scale of blame is starting to tip more in the KAT/Wiggins direction.
Camden wrote:Some fans didn't enjoy how the Wolves were winning games. Some players didn't enjoy how Jimmy Butler chose to lead.
I guess we see which side was wrong.
I'm not sure if it's so much not appreciating Butler's skill set, but rather not appreciating his seething attitude. Most of us agreed with Butler on the young teammates AAU attitude, but he was such a negative drain on everyone mentally. To me it's one thing to challenge his teammates and hold them accountable, but it's another to be a complete jackass.
That said, he's always been really good.
Fair but when you see the Heat start 3rd year player Bam, 2nd year player Robinson, rookie Herro and main bench rookie dunn play well its hard to give the Wolves players a pass
Exactly. KAT looks like a soft little baby in hindsight. The more I look at the evidence, the more he comes off as one of the biggest pretenders in the league. Hugely skilled? Yes. Winner? Zero evidence so far. And I don't see DLO as the antidote as he isn't exactly a model of intensity and toughness either.
But I don't see any appetite from the front office to give up on a tandem that hasn't even really played together yet. We'll see what happens next season, but I'm not optimistic.
Towns is the only guy left now so that's the guy to be concerned about and yeah this doesn't look good for him. I'll say though that I have a hard time not questioning the organization too and at the time that was led by Thibs. The whole thing blew up on his watch. He brought in Butler and it didn't work. I still think some part of the reason why Butler left was he didn't think Thibs was going to get the job done at some level. Meanwhile Jimmy is playing under a HOF GM and a coach that's likely heading there too IMO. Spolstra should have already been considered one of the elite coaches in the league but now people are seeing it even more. The Heat won a game and were competitive in the previous game without Bam. The organization has been able to get more out of guys than other places has and also been able to draft and develop guys.
Meanwhile...Butler is playing in a way that is starting to disprove the idea some people (Including myself to some extent) have put forth that he isn't good enough to be THE guy on a Championship team. One thing to consider is that right now the Heat are playing quite a few guys that are shooters so that likely opens things up for Butler to do his thing.
They still are not beating the Lakers so I think we will be proven right in the end. I never thought Jimmy as the guy would be able to carry a team to a championship. He's gotten closer to that then I thought though. But he has had a lot of help in a perfect situation. I highly doubt if he stayed here with Thibs the Wolves are in the Championship game now. ;)
You're really gonna fault a guy in that conversation because he can't beat 2 of the 5 best players in the league? The Lakers have 2 guys that can be the best player on a title contender. If that's the case with Jimmy how can Giannis be considered one of those guys considering he's never made a finals at this point?
To be fair though. Wasn't Miami the 5 seed? Do they even get past the first round without the bubble? How are they without Herro? Butler has been inconsistent throughout these playoffs as other guys like Bam and Herro have stepped up. They have a great coach, GM and team. Butler is just a piece of a nice puzzle, even a very good one. I wouldn't read too much into one game when the Lakers came out flat.
Let's see what happens in game 4 and 5. I'll say Lakers in 5.
A neutral court is the most level playing field there is in basketball and Butler's team made it out of the East. Not Giannis'. Not Tatum and Brown's. It goes to show how much some of these top teams need their home court to be able to win meanwhile Lebron and Jimmy came into the bubble and took care of business with no excuses. That one game was literally a historic performance. He's in the history books for what he did so ya I'm gonna put some stock in it especially when he did it down 2 starters and they could have just rolled over this series. LA's not hurt. There's no excuses. That game wasn't won in the first quarter. LA had plenty of chances to come back and win that game and they just had the door closed on them by someone who wanted it more last night.
I don't think you a really seeing the effect Jimmy has on a team. He's not gonna just say give me the ball and I'm gonna get mine every night. They're good because he takes over when he's needed and when he's not he lets everyone else cook. If Harden, Giannis, PG/Kawhi, and to even some extent Lebron in the past weren't so ball dominant, run everything through them their teams would be a lot more resilient to step up when they don't play their best or if they are having the ball taken out of their hands by the defense. Jimmy is playing the ultimate team ball and that's why he has always been on winners and it's what makes him in particular a superstar. When he came to MN he tried to do the exact same with Wiggins and Towns and they just weren't getting it done on their own to start the year and that's when he started to take over. He knows the secret that a lot of superstars just don't and that's how to rise the tide of your team rather than tow the boat. If Herro is on the Bucks or the Rockets do you think he even gets the chance to make that And-1 on Rondo he did at the end of game 3? Or is he just sitting in a corner watching Giannis and Harden try to make something out of nothing?
Jimmy ultimately did what he had to do to get out of Minnesota. As fans that hurt. From all accounts the final straw for Jimmy seemed to be KAT not giving a shit during the Houston playoff series when KAT was totally pathetic. We then saw KAT give up on the team until Thibs finally traded away Butler and he decided to start playing again.
Taylor probably had something to do with it, Wiggins too. But the real issue seemed to be with KAT and Jimmy. All these signs seem to point to KAT insisting behind the scenes that the team get rid of Jimmy. Ultimately the team went with KAT. I hope it was the right decision because he seemed EMO before all the shit he is going through now.
thedoper wrote:Jimmy ultimately did what he had to do to get out of Minnesota. As fans that hurt. From all accounts the final straw for Jimmy seemed to be KAT not giving a shit during the Houston playoff series when KAT was totally pathetic. We then saw KAT give up on the team until Thibs finally traded away Butler and he decided to start playing again.
Taylor probably had something to do with it, Wiggins too. But the real issue seemed to be with KAT and Jimmy. All these signs seem to point to KAT insisting behind the scenes that the team get rid of Jimmy. Ultimately the team went with KAT. I hope it was the right decision because he seemed EMO before all the shit he is going through now.
I wonder how KAT is doing today with Jimmy going off and how his GF joined onlyfans
thedoper wrote:Jimmy ultimately did what he had to do to get out of Minnesota. As fans that hurt. From all accounts the final straw for Jimmy seemed to be KAT not giving a shit during the Houston playoff series when KAT was totally pathetic. We then saw KAT give up on the team until Thibs finally traded away Butler and he decided to start playing again.
Taylor probably had something to do with it, Wiggins too. But the real issue seemed to be with KAT and Jimmy. All these signs seem to point to KAT insisting behind the scenes that the team get rid of Jimmy. Ultimately the team went with KAT. I hope it was the right decision because he seemed EMO before all the shit he is going through now.
I wonder how KAT is doing today with Jimmy going off and how his GF joined onlyfans
KAT seemed to be promoting her doing it on his Instagram today. Who really knows? As of right now it seems like basketball is not really on his mind. I hope he comes back stronger with a new desire to win, but Im not overly bullish on that outcome.
thedoper wrote:Jimmy ultimately did what he had to do to get out of Minnesota. As fans that hurt. From all accounts the final straw for Jimmy seemed to be KAT not giving a shit during the Houston playoff series when KAT was totally pathetic. We then saw KAT give up on the team until Thibs finally traded away Butler and he decided to start playing again.
Taylor probably had something to do with it, Wiggins too. But the real issue seemed to be with KAT and Jimmy. All these signs seem to point to KAT insisting behind the scenes that the team get rid of Jimmy. Ultimately the team went with KAT. I hope it was the right decision because he seemed EMO before all the shit he is going through now.
I wonder how KAT is doing today with Jimmy going off and how his GF joined onlyfans
thedoper wrote:Jimmy ultimately did what he had to do to get out of Minnesota. As fans that hurt. From all accounts the final straw for Jimmy seemed to be KAT not giving a shit during the Houston playoff series when KAT was totally pathetic. We then saw KAT give up on the team until Thibs finally traded away Butler and he decided to start playing again.
Taylor probably had something to do with it, Wiggins too. But the real issue seemed to be with KAT and Jimmy. All these signs seem to point to KAT insisting behind the scenes that the team get rid of Jimmy. Ultimately the team went with KAT. I hope it was the right decision because he seemed EMO before all the shit he is going through now.
I wonder how KAT is doing today with Jimmy going off and how his GF joined onlyfans
thedoper wrote:Jimmy ultimately did what he had to do to get out of Minnesota. As fans that hurt. From all accounts the final straw for Jimmy seemed to be KAT not giving a shit during the Houston playoff series when KAT was totally pathetic. We then saw KAT give up on the team until Thibs finally traded away Butler and he decided to start playing again.
Taylor probably had something to do with it, Wiggins too. But the real issue seemed to be with KAT and Jimmy. All these signs seem to point to KAT insisting behind the scenes that the team get rid of Jimmy. Ultimately the team went with KAT. I hope it was the right decision because he seemed EMO before all the shit he is going through now.
I wonder how KAT is doing today with Jimmy going off and how his GF joined onlyfans
Is that a porn site?
(asking for a friend)
No, but also yes.
It is a chance for lousy men and women to send money to other men and women for personal sexual videos where they garner easy money. Rather than promoting intellectual growth.
So yes, it is porn, whether softcore or hardcore.
I personally think it is gross.
Not something I would want to promote going forward.
thedoper wrote:Jimmy ultimately did what he had to do to get out of Minnesota. As fans that hurt. From all accounts the final straw for Jimmy seemed to be KAT not giving a shit during the Houston playoff series when KAT was totally pathetic. We then saw KAT give up on the team until Thibs finally traded away Butler and he decided to start playing again.
Taylor probably had something to do with it, Wiggins too. But the real issue seemed to be with KAT and Jimmy. All these signs seem to point to KAT insisting behind the scenes that the team get rid of Jimmy. Ultimately the team went with KAT. I hope it was the right decision because he seemed EMO before all the shit he is going through now.
I wonder how KAT is doing today with Jimmy going off and how his GF joined onlyfans
Is that a porn site?
(asking for a friend)
No, but also yes.
It is a chance for lousy men and women to send money to other men and women for personal sexual videos where they garner easy money. Rather than promoting intellectual growth.
So yes, it is porn, whether softcore or hardcore.
I personally think it is gross.
Not something I would want to promote going forward.
Ya its a subscription based service where people can post sexual pictures and videos behind a pay wall.
I'm not going to judge people in that business. If they want to make easy quick money they should be able to. It's their choice. I'm guessing Kat girlfriend will be racking in the cash though. Belle Thorne (former Disney star) created an only fans and made 1 million in 1 day. Without showing any nudity.
There is a person associated with KFAN that said she made like 30k in 2 months creating an only fans.
Kat GF will make a ton of money because she is a public figure associated with the Kardashians and now dating KAT.
Good for her if she wants to make an easy dollar from horny dudes. If I'm Kat though not sure I would want my public GF having sexual content available. But it's there relationship they can do what they want
