Camden0916 wrote:Jon K: Rosas said fit didn't play into the decision to pick Anthony Edwards. He stood "head and shoulders" above anyone else in their eyes.
Oof.
Rosas did say a month back that need would not play a role. They would draft as they saw BPA. Not saying I agree.
We also have to remember this is a guy that comes from the small ball mold so he's just never going to value big men the same as wings/guards. In his mind Edwards was probably the best prospect, but in reality where guys like AD and BAM just faced off in the finals, quality big men are still really important. I heard on the broadcast that the Warriors had Wiseman as their guy so tell me which organization likely has the better evaluators ranking these prospects? A team that won with small ball still valued the big more than both the guards.
Couldn't agree more. My only argument against Wiseman going to GS is that he may not realize his own potential there. He will be very useful for the team but they are still a perimeter oriented squad. He may not improve as an offensive player there.
I seriously question that a big man can't reach his offensive potential surrounded by 2 of the greatest shooters of all time and one of the better playmaking 4's in Green in the league. I think Wiseman is literally just gonna clean up on that squad. The Klay injury is a major set back, but they get our pick next year as well to continue to add really high picks to a great team as those guys start to age and decline. It's literally the dream for a front office to get to build a team this way.
If you're never the focal point and always benefitting from the great talent around you what happens when that talent is old and retired or traded? With all the perimeter shooting taking place there is he going to be honing his own offensive skills ?
Imagine a world where a big man gets the ball and drives to the basket and if he doesn't have a clean look kicks it out to Steph Curry or Klay Thompson. Now imagine if you don't play help defense to stop that drive because then you are giving an open look to Steph Curry or Klay Thompson and he just gets to take him man 1 on 1 to the rack. Is your point really that his getting easy buckets on elite efficiency while they are still good is going to negatively impact him when he needs to take on a bigger role of the offense when they are older and just hanging out on the perimeter? Shooting doesn't age and who knows what else they get to add to that team with our pick next year to be his long-term running mate. I think they'll be ok with that reality. Just a hunch though.
Boogie Cousins went there and his numbers dropped dramatically. He was an established player. My point is Wiseman may not even get to establish himself to his full potential. It's ok to disagree fella!
Boogie was coming off a torn Achilles playing only 30 games before he proceed to tear a quad muscle in the playoffs and he still helped them win 2 finals games while barely having any conditioning under his belt going 14/6 in one game and 11/10/6 in another. Quoting the stats of a 7 footer coming off multiple major injuries to prove your point is really reaching there.
Man Lip, you still can see the logic in trading up in last years draft with maybe 50/50 chance of getting your guy, I'd say maybe higher, while only giving of Saric. Saric is a backup player who was about to be a free agent. Might not of worked out but pretty sound logic to me.
Last comment of the night for me. Obviously, I don't like the Wolves' draft class as a whole. I think they shouldn't have traded 17. I didn't like the decision to not only draft Leandro Bolmaro, but trade up for him. I find that especially ludicrous. I think Jaden McDaniels is an extremely immature kid that has talent and will never actually realize it. It's an overall bummer for me because I saw real opportunities to improve this franchise in the present and the future at every single draft slot that Minnesota originally had -- 1, 17, and 33 -- and the front office absolutely played themselves. That's just how I feel based on my evaluations over many months.
I've had my fun and vented throughout this thread, but this is the simple truth as I see it. This draft revolves around Anthony Edwards. Everything else is forgettable at the end of the day as long as Edwards delivers. I believe in his talent. I believe in his physical ability and measurables. He's your prototypical "create a player" at the shooting guard position. He's just going to have to prove that he has the mentality to go with it. From everything he's done thus far, I just haven't seen it. Maybe he decided not to go all out at Georgia. Maybe he was just enjoying being the college star on campus. I don't know what the matter was, but I'm willing to give him a clean slate. The grind starts now. He has the goods to be an elite player in this league if he wants to be. That's the biggest question mark with him and at least he's aware of it. I don't know how you make someone give a shit, but I truly hope the light turns on for that kid despite it never happening for other talented top prospects.
Duke13 wrote:Man Lip, you still can see the logic in trading up in last years draft with maybe 50/50 chance of getting your guy, I'd say maybe higher, while only giving of Saric. Saric is a backup player who was about to be a free agent. Might not of worked out but pretty sound logic to me.
You have to look at the opportunity cost of trading Saric for a guy you didn't get. This wasn't about keeping Saric. He was a valuable asset who could have been used in other deals either last summer or at the February trade deadline.
Duke13 wrote:Man Lip, you still can see the logic in trading up in last years draft with maybe 50/50 chance of getting your guy, I'd say maybe higher, while only giving of Saric. Saric is a backup player who was about to be a free agent. Might not of worked out but pretty sound logic to me.
Saric would be the best option at the 4 on this current roster by miles if he was still here. And the guy the Suns got at 11 (Cam Johnson) shot 39% from 3 as a rookie and he would be the best 3 on the team right now by miles. So no, losing 2 guys who would be starting on this team right now for Culver was not a logical trade to make last year. It was a desperate attempt for a GM to make his mark on a roster that ended up being an overshoot and actually cost us some competent basketball players at the 2 positions where we have the biggest needs for right now. PJ Washington and Tyler Herro were the next 2 picks after the 11th pick so there were multiple options he could have picked that would have been better than Culver and we would have kept Saric. Culver has an extremely long way to go to make that trade look good and we just drafted his replacement tonight.
Ricky will play the 1
Russell will combo 1-2
Culver/Okogie/Edwards will all rotate on the wings (the NBA is going smaller, positionless basketball is becoming the norm, and I am pretty sure Okogie's numbers are actually better at SF than SG)
That leaves JMac. He'll be end of bench, and cheap. Not the worst thing in the world and gives us good depth.
I agree our frontcourt is a problem outside of KAT. I'm assuming that either they have confidence in someone stepping up such as Vanderbuilt, or they will make a trade involving either Okogie or Culver. If there's one thing we should have learned by now, it's that Rosas probably understands we need to reshape the roster further, and to my knowledge, he didn't say this is our opening day roster yet.
mrhockey89 wrote:icky/Russel/Edwards/Culver/Okogie/J Mac. You got 96 minutes for 6 players at their best positions. Could you play some of them at the 3? Maybe, but you are creating a mismatch for the other team just as much as you are trying to create one playing with 3 guards on the floor at a time. It will work some of the time and probably get torched just as much as well. Even if you just played that group exclusively 1-3 while ignoring the rest of the roster, some guys would be missing out on minutes
Ricky will play the 1
Russell will combo 1-2
Culver/Okogie/Edwards will all rotate on the wings (the NBA is going smaller, positionless basketball is becoming the norm, and I am pretty sure Okogie's numbers are actually better at SF than SG)
That leaves JMac. He'll be end of bench, and cheap. Not the worst thing in the world and gives us good depth.
I agree our frontcourt is a problem outside of KAT. I'm assuming that either they have confidence in someone stepping up such as Vanderbuilt, or they will make a trade involving either Okogie or Culver. If there's one thing we should have learned by now, it's that Rosas probably understands we need to reshape the roster further, and to my knowledge, he didn't say this is our opening day roster yet.
I've seen no evidence that Rosas understands much of anything. He continues to draft poor three-point shooters to join a team that took the third most three pointers in the League last season. Go figure. He's created an incredibly unbalanced roster of guards. I don't see any method to the madness; just madness. And I don't see any more of a plan than his roll of the dice last year when he traded up for a player he didn't know for sure he could get and ended up not getting.
Duke13 wrote:We disagree which is fine. In my opinion he was a player with very little value, and using him to move up was way more value then I believed he had.
Duke, I agree with you. Any time you can use a player nearing the end of their contract that isn't in your long term plans to move up in a draft it's a solid move. The Wolves used Mike Miller and Randy Foye which got us #5 to draft Rubio (that was the forgotten genius part of Kahn's move, he just completely botched it when he took Flynn over Curry/DeRozan at 6).
Culver is still an unknown, but very few people felt he would be drafted outside the top 7, so it's not like we moved up to 'reach' for a pick, regardless of if he turns out. There are more NBA busts than success stories, and I think people often forget that when it's their own team striking out.
mrhockey89 wrote:Ricky will play the 1
Russell will combo 1-2
Culver/Okogie/Edwards will all rotate on the wings (the NBA is going smaller, positionless basketball is becoming the norm, and I am pretty sure Okogie's numbers are actually better at SF than SG) That leaves JMac. He'll be end of bench, and cheap. Not the worst thing in the world and gives us good depth.
I'm actually pretty worried that J-Mac won't be retained, and that would be a misstep by this front office. He could easily be an MLE target by some of these playoff teams needing a moderate usage bench PG. I've already seen members of the media link the Lakers to him to replace Rondo.
