Camden0916 wrote:Jon K: Rosas said fit didn't play into the decision to pick Anthony Edwards. He stood "head and shoulders" above anyone else in their eyes.
Oof.
Rosas did say a month back that need would not play a role. They would draft as they saw BPA. Not saying I agree.
We also have to remember this is a guy that comes from the small ball mold so he's just never going to value big men the same as wings/guards. In his mind Edwards was probably the best prospect, but in reality where guys like AD and BAM just faced off in the finals, quality big men are still really important. I heard on the broadcast that the Warriors had Wiseman as their guy so tell me which organization likely has the better evaluators ranking these prospects? A team that won with small ball still valued the big more than both the guards.
Couldn't agree more. My only argument against Wiseman going to GS is that he may not realize his own potential there. He will be very useful for the team but they are still a perimeter oriented squad. He may not improve as an offensive player there.
I seriously question that a big man can't reach his offensive potential surrounded by 2 of the greatest shooters of all time and one of the better playmaking 4's in Green in the league. I think Wiseman is literally just gonna clean up on that squad. The Klay injury is a major set back, but they get our pick next year as well to continue to add really high picks to a great team as those guys start to age and decline. It's literally the dream for a front office to get to build a team this way.
If you're never the focal point and always benefitting from the great talent around you what happens when that talent is old and retired or traded? With all the perimeter shooting taking place there is he going to be honing his own offensive skills ?
Imagine a world where a big man gets the ball and drives to the basket and if he doesn't have a clean look kicks it out to Steph Curry or Klay Thompson. Now imagine if you don't play help defense to stop that drive because then you are giving an open look to Steph Curry or Klay Thompson and he just gets to take him man 1 on 1 to the rack. Is your point really that his getting easy buckets on elite efficiency while they are still good is going to negatively impact him when he needs to take on a bigger role of the offense when they are older and just hanging out on the perimeter? Shooting doesn't age and who knows what else they get to add to that team with our pick next year to be his long-term running mate. I think they'll be ok with that reality. Just a hunch though.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:Ok. I just checked out The Athletic's post-draft discussion between Vecenie and Hollinger. Whether you think they're clowns or not... this is funny in a really sad, pathetic, keep me away from the kitchen knives drawer sort of way...
EDWARDS "just doesn't play winning basketball due to his shot decisions and poor defensive effort."
MCDANIELS "actually got pulled from Washington's starting lineup last year becuase he was so ineffectual. (Washington was LAST in the Pac 10). And this... "he was terrible at Washington last season - both on the court and off it."
Oh... but let's not forget this fucking guy...
BOLMARO "wasn't even my favorite international and I think it was a reach to take him in the first round, but he excites some scouts with his combo of size and playmaking. Not sure why Wolves felt they had to trade up for this."
Remember when I said I was excited for this draft... probably more than any other? THIS is why I don't usually care. Wow.
On the flip side, the Ringer gave the Wolves an A for both Edwards and McDaniels and a B for Bolmaro.
mrhockey89 wrote:Why does noone even want to give some sort of benefit of the doubt to our front office when they literally broke down not only the analytics for months, but watched every minute of game tape from each of these guys, and surely more than all of us. Like I said, wasn't my dream draft, but we're talking as if we already know the result of all of their careers. Step back from the cliff gentlemen.
Pretty sure there were a lot of people excited about Derrick Williams, pissed at trading OJ Mayo for Love+Mike Miller, and on cloud 9 when we were able to land Maple Jordan for Love. With that said, while I think it's fair to feel disappointment right now if they didn't draft your guy, that doesn't mean they won't end up being the right guys. Right now we should be in the "what will the team look like" mode, and get some anticipation going for the upcoming season.
Sure. You might be right. And I've fully admitted I'm no draft expert. And since I know the usual draft odds of hitting on picks... I'll be happy if any of them turn out to be a solid starter.
But I do have a certain type of player I like to watch. And none of the guys the Wolves picked are the type of NBA players I'm attracted to.
And... Vecenie and Hollinger are also guys who get paid to do this stuff. So I wouldn't dismiss their takes as much as most of us yahoos on here.
mrhockey89 wrote:Why does noone even want to give some sort of benefit of the doubt to our front office when they literally broke down not only the analytics for months, but watched every minute of game tape from each of these guys, and surely more than all of us. Like I said, wasn't my dream draft, but we're talking as if we already know the result of all of their careers. Step back from the cliff gentlemen.
Pretty sure there were a lot of people excited about Derrick Williams, pissed at trading OJ Mayo for Love+Mike Miller, and on cloud 9 when we were able to land Maple Jordan for Love. With that said, while I think it's fair to feel disappointment right now if they didn't draft your guy, that doesn't mean they won't end up being the right guys. Right now we should be in the "what will the team look like" mode, and get some anticipation going for the upcoming season.
I agree. Go Wolves. There wasn't any consensus in anything I read this year from a lot of basketball people I respect. Ultimately the draft should always be a wait and see proposition.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:Ok. I just checked out The Athletic's post-draft discussion between Vecenie and Hollinger. Whether you think they're clowns or not... this is funny in a really sad, pathetic, keep me away from the kitchen knives drawer sort of way...
EDWARDS "just doesn't play winning basketball due to his shot decisions and poor defensive effort."
MCDANIELS "actually got pulled from Washington's starting lineup last year becuase he was so ineffectual. (Washington was LAST in the Pac 10). And this... "he was terrible at Washington last season - both on the court and off it."
Oh... but let's not forget this fucking guy...
BOLMARO "wasn't even my favorite international and I think it was a reach to take him in the first round, but he excites some scouts with his combo of size and playmaking. Not sure why Wolves felt they had to trade up for this."
Remember when I said I was excited for this draft... probably more than any other? THIS is why I don't usually care. Wow.
On the flip side, the Ringer gave the Wolves an A for both Edwards and McDaniels and a B for Bolmaro.
That makes sense. If it was Kevin O'Connor... he's VERY VERY HIGH on high potential prospects and usually downgrades guys who don't fit that type.
To be fair, the draft seemed to follow some of O'Connor's takes, so he may be right on the pulse of the current NBA.
mrhockey89 wrote:Why does noone even want to give some sort of benefit of the doubt to our front office when they literally broke down not only the analytics for months, but watched every minute of game tape from each of these guys, and surely more than all of us. Like I said, wasn't my dream draft, but we're talking as if we already know the result of all of their careers. Step back from the cliff gentlemen.
Pretty sure there were a lot of people excited about Derrick Williams, pissed at trading OJ Mayo for Love+Mike Miller, and on cloud 9 when we were able to land Maple Jordan for Love. With that said, while I think it's fair to feel disappointment right now if they didn't draft your guy, that doesn't mean they won't end up being the right guys. Right now we should be in the "what will the team look like" mode, and get some anticipation going for the upcoming season.
I appreciate your optimism and positive attitude. I'll root for all of our draft picks to figure it out, but consider me highly skeptical that these were the best possible picks at those slots. No fucking way.
mrhockey89 wrote:Why does noone even want to give some sort of benefit of the doubt to our front office when they literally broke down not only the analytics for months, but watched every minute of game tape from each of these guys, and surely more than all of us. Like I said, wasn't my dream draft, but we're talking as if we already know the result of all of their careers. Step back from the cliff gentlemen.
Pretty sure there were a lot of people excited about Derrick Williams, pissed at trading OJ Mayo for Love+Mike Miller, and on cloud 9 when we were able to land Maple Jordan for Love. With that said, while I think it's fair to feel disappointment right now if they didn't draft your guy, that doesn't mean they won't end up being the right guys. Right now we should be in the "what will the team look like" mode, and get some anticipation going for the upcoming season.
Sure. You might be right. And I've fully admitted I'm no draft expert. And since I know the usual draft odds of hitting on picks... I'll be happy if any of them turn out to be a solid starter.
But I do have a certain type of player I like to watch. And none of the guys the Wolves picked are the type of NBA players I'm attracted to.
And... Vecenie and Hollinger are also guys who get paid to do this stuff. So I wouldn't dismiss their takes as much as most of us yahoos on here.
I'm not attracted to even some stars whose games are tough to watch, but they're stars. The Spurs were hard to watch, but they won. The Houston Rockets have helped make NBA hoops a chore to watch, but they made the playoffs every year. If they win, the aesthetics won't matter. They just have to go do it.
mrhockey89 wrote:Why does noone even want to give some sort of benefit of the doubt to our front office when they literally broke down not only the analytics for months, but watched every minute of game tape from each of these guys, and surely more than all of us. Like I said, wasn't my dream draft, but we're talking as if we already know the result of all of their careers. Step back from the cliff gentlemen.
Pretty sure there were a lot of people excited about Derrick Williams, pissed at trading OJ Mayo for Love+Mike Miller, and on cloud 9 when we were able to land Maple Jordan for Love. With that said, while I think it's fair to feel disappointment right now if they didn't draft your guy, that doesn't mean they won't end up being the right guys. Right now we should be in the "what will the team look like" mode, and get some anticipation going for the upcoming season.
Sure. You might be right. And I've fully admitted I'm no draft expert. And since I know the usual draft odds of hitting on picks... I'll be happy if any of them turn out to be a solid starter.
But I do have a certain type of player I like to watch. And none of the guys the Wolves picked are the type of NBA players I'm attracted to.
And... Vecenie and Hollinger are also guys who get paid to do this stuff. So I wouldn't dismiss their takes as much as most of us yahoos on here.
Abe, change your face.
And FWIW, Jaden McDaniels was #1 on Jay Bilas' big board when the Wolves picked him.
Camden0916 wrote:Jon K: Rosas said fit didn't play into the decision to pick Anthony Edwards. He stood "head and shoulders" above anyone else in their eyes.
Oof.
Rosas did say a month back that need would not play a role. They would draft as they saw BPA. Not saying I agree.
We also have to remember this is a guy that comes from the small ball mold so he's just never going to value big men the same as wings/guards. In his mind Edwards was probably the best prospect, but in reality where guys like AD and BAM just faced off in the finals, quality big men are still really important. I heard on the broadcast that the Warriors had Wiseman as their guy so tell me which organization likely has the better evaluators ranking these prospects? A team that won with small ball still valued the big more than both the guards.
Couldn't agree more. My only argument against Wiseman going to GS is that he may not realize his own potential there. He will be very useful for the team but they are still a perimeter oriented squad. He may not improve as an offensive player there.
I seriously question that a big man can't reach his offensive potential surrounded by 2 of the greatest shooters of all time and one of the better playmaking 4's in Green in the league. I think Wiseman is literally just gonna clean up on that squad. The Klay injury is a major set back, but they get our pick next year as well to continue to add really high picks to a great team as those guys start to age and decline. It's literally the dream for a front office to get to build a team this way.
If you're never the focal point and always benefitting from the great talent around you what happens when that talent is old and retired or traded? With all the perimeter shooting taking place there is he going to be honing his own offensive skills ?
Imagine a world where a big man gets the ball and drives to the basket and if he doesn't have a clean look kicks it out to Steph Curry or Klay Thompson. Now imagine if you don't play help defense to stop that drive because then you are giving an open look to Steph Curry or Klay Thompson and he just gets to take him man 1 on 1 to the rack. Is your point really that his getting easy buckets on elite efficiency while they are still good is going to negatively impact him when he needs to take on a bigger role of the offense when they are older and just hanging out on the perimeter? Shooting doesn't age and who knows what else they get to add to that team with our pick next year to be his long-term running mate. I think they'll be ok with that reality. Just a hunch though.
Boogie Cousins went there and his numbers dropped dramatically. He was an established player. My point is Wiseman may not even get to establish himself to his full potential. It's ok to disagree fella!
