lipoli390 wrote:monsterpile wrote:lipoli390 wrote:Two things the Sixers would have to do to have a shot at getting Simmons to come back:
1. Fire Doc Rivers
2. Trade Joel Embiid
If I were Simmons there's no way I'd play another game for Doc Rivers or with Joel Embiid. I've already received 25% of my $33M salary for this season and I'm going to get another 25% on Oct. 1. My next paycheck isn't due until Nov. 15 and if the Sixers want to fine me then, the first have to suspend me, which will further diminish my trade value to the Sixers. So why on earth would I play another game for Doc or with Joel after they both publicly threw me under the bus. Even worse, I'd be playing in front of a hostile Philly fan base and I'd look weak and lose my credibility playing under those circumstances after emphatically saying I wouldn't.
We're hearing that Gupta is on friendlier terms with Morey than Rosas was. I actually hope that's not true. I hope Gupta wants to screw Morey or is at least completely dispassionate in his approach to him. The only leverage Morey has with the Wolves now exists in what other teams are willing to offer and I wouldn't expect any offers remotely close to what Morey has been seeking. I would question and do everything possible to verify any representations makes about other offers for Simmons. And I'd have my line in the sand set firmly in concrete as to what I absolutely will not give up to get him. As my line, I would not include KAT, Edwards, McDaniels or Beverley as part of my outgoing package under any circumstances and I would not give up more than two future 1st-round picks, although I'd be willing to leave one of them totally unprotected.
Morey's not going to get Beal, Lillard or Fox for Simmons or for any other deal he might offer in the future that doesn't include Embiid. I still believe he has to come away with a package that can help the Sixers win now and that probably has to include an allstar caliber or near all-star caliber lead guard with elite offensive production to complement Embiid. D'Angelo Russell fits that profile and I believe the Wolves will eventually make him available for Simmons if they haven't already. I also expect that Sexton, Djounte Murray, CJ McCollum, Buddy Hield, VanVleet and Haliburton will be on the table as well. Whether the Wolves end up with Simmons will depend on how Morey values Russell relative to those six other guards and, to a lesser extent, what other assets are included with each of them. I suspect a deal will be done within the next two weeks.
FWIW the reporting has been that Rosas did go over his line in the sand and of course it's been reported that he went over what others in the Wolves organization was willing to give up for Russell. Dane Moore said in his last podcast that Rosas went over his line in the sand in 2020 in terms of money for both Juancho and Beasley. Beasley to me made more sense at the time (even though I was initially upset at the number) since it does sound like the Knicks were ready to make an offer. Juancho not as much. Dane said on his pod he does think Gupta is more of a collaborator and what he heard was some deals Rosas made he pretty much just went and did them. That's not necessarily a bad thing but if you are worried about an organization giving up too much I think the more people that are involved the more likely you give up less. There will be enough varied positions (take this board for example) that someone will make a strong case for only giving up assets ABC instead of ABCDE or maybe just bowing out altogether or whatever.
Only time will tell what will happen and I'm not saying I feel super confident in Gupta but as you have laid out yourself a time or 2 Rosas Likely has given up more than the line in the sand to get what he wanted. Sometimes that's worth it as we saw in the Jrue Holiday deal. Sometimes it's a disaster and I'm talking something much worse than the moves Rosas made...well except the Culver one is pretty bad. Gupta conveniently wasn't here for that one though. :)
Excellent post, Monster. I hadn't heard those reports from the Dane Moore podcast. But I'm not surprised either. We're starting to get a pretty clear picture of Rosas as a PBO who repeatedly did things against what was probably the consensus advice of his other top basketball execs, including but not limited to Gupta. That was definitely Gersson's prerogative, but that type of approach generally undermines an organization's morale and, as you suggested, it can lead to bad decisions. I can imagine how some things might have gone down. I'll suggest the following possible scenarios just for fun:
1. Gersson loved Darius Garland and wanted to trade up to get him. Gupta and the other basketball front office staff probably really liked Garland too. Here's what might have happened. Rosas came up with the Phoenix deal and ran it by the group. They all liked the idea of trading up for Garland, but Gupta reminded Rosas that there was no assurance the Wolves could get Garland because the Cavs might take him. Gupta then reminded Rosas that the general rule of thumb for lottery teams is to draft the best player available and hat Garland was clearly the best on the board at that point. Rosas pushed back that the Cavs already had a PG in Sexton, but Gupta reminded Rosas that he wasn't the only PBO who believed in positionless basketball. Rosas stubbornly dismissed the possibility that Cleveland might take Garland and he figured he could always give up a little bit to pry Garland away from Cleveland anyway. Gupta, backed by the rest of the front office team, told Rosas that he should assume Kobe Altman loved Garland as much as he did and that there was a big drop off from Garland to Culver and other options. Rosas then abruptly ended the discussion by thanking them for their input and telling them he was going to do the deal with Phoenix. Of course, Cleveland ended up taking Garland and obviously rebuffed all of Gersson's efforts to do a deal to get him. Gupta then came to Rosas with a number of creative proposals to trade back into the draft and take a player at least as good as Culver while also getting another asset or two. But Gersson shot him down without explanation. Of course, trading back in would have been an embarrassing concession by Rosas that he screwed up. Gupta and the rest of the staff were already frustrated by what they saw as a poor decision to trade up for someone they weren't sure they could get. They became even more frustrated by Gersson's decision to compound his mistake just to save face at the expense of the organization. But alas, that's the way it goes and I'm sure they got over it. But the pattern continued.
2. After the draft that year, Gersson wined and dined DLO and was intent on signing him as his signature free-agent acquisition. The rest of the organization dutifully helped, but wondered all along whether a poor defender was the right fit to pair with KAT. They also questioned how the Wolves would clear enough salary space to sign him. Then DLO surprised everyone by signing with Golden State. That had to be a big let-down for Rosas and a bit embarrassing. From that moment on, he was determined to get Russell and as the trade deadline approached, he worked a deal to get him. Gupta and the rest of Gersson's front office told Rosas they weren't sure it made sense to add another poor defender as our "other star." They also told Rosas they thought Golden State's asking price was too much, that there were no other serious suitors for DLO and that Rosas was effectively bidding against himself. They told Gersson he could wait until the off-season and DLO would still be there. Rosas responded that he wasn't going to take the chance of losing Russell twice and, therefore, he wasn't going to worry about defense given "the style they wanted to play" and he wasn't going to quibble over how protected the first-round pick was or whether to also include a 2nd-round pick, which would likely be a high one. So he proceeded to make the deal - once again, ignoring the consensus advice of his top front office staff.
3. The off-season arrived and Gersson was determined to re-sign all the players he traded for. Gupta and others advised against paying too much for either one given how the team's payroll was getting really high while the team was still a bottom lottery team. They noted that no other teams were aggressively pursing either Beasley or Juancho - especially Juancho. Once again, Rosas went off on his own and signed both at amounts his front office colleagues considered excessive based on their assessment of the market for those players.
4. The next year, Rosas was determined to acquire Ricky Rubio after trying and failing to get him the previous year. Once again, Rosas always gets his main - like the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. Gupta and his staff warned him that spending that sort of money for a backup PG was problematic and that they needed to balance the roster by beefing up the front court. Rosas responded that they didn't need more size given the style they wanted to play. Once again, Rosas ignored their advice and engineered a deal for Rubio.
The saving grace in all of this was that someone in the organization, maybe Rosas, displayed a good eye for talent. That eye for talent led to Naz Reid, J-Mac, Anthony Edwards and Jaden McDaniels. If we presume Rosas was a lone wolf, then we should probably give Rosas credit for those signings and picks. And it's still possible that Russell will pan out.
Assuming we go with our current roster next season, we'll get a good measure of how effective Rosas was as the Wolves PBO because it's definitely the roster he built. And if the Wolves do as well as I think they can, then it's too bad he couldn't be more collaborative with his front office colleagues in the basketball department and a lot less "collaborative" with a certain female VP in the communications department.
Lip I enjoyed your fan fiction! I'm willing to buy in that Rosas might have went rogue or made the decision to go beyond what he planned to for a couple of these deals. Supposedly he pretty much just went and got Beverly too which was a terrific move. Meanwhile whether Rosas was bidding against himself or the Knicks Beasley and his contract is still regarded as an asset so if he did that good for Rosas. I'm just not into blaming Rosas for all the bad stuff although I know that wasn't your point.
There is an interesting perspective shared from the Punch Drunk Wolves writer on Dane Moore's last podcast. You should check it out if you can find the time.
