GDT: We Need This One

[BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520]]

Me too, I almost checked out until next year, but I'll hang around seeing how we're not an embarrassment as of late.

[Lipoli390]

Thibs was still screaming and storming the sidelines the Chicago and Houston game, I think it's just the team is learning how to finish now, Thibs berating players certainly had hasn't hurt us from amassing double digit leads in the majority of our games unless you think his screaming only counts in crunch time when we used to wilt in the final minutes.

I didn't see the Houston game, bloop, so I assume your observation is accurate. I don't think Thibs is going to completely change his behavior overnight (and he doesn't have to), but I do think he has made an effort recently to make some adjustments (in response to some strong suggestions from a group that has made him a very wealthy man). But let me invite you to consider this possibility: if he was screaming and storming during the Houston game, might that possibly be a contributing factor to the worst end-of-game collapse of the year? Lip and I have both pointed out instances where players have appeared distracted looking over to hear what Thibs was screaming, and could that have led to the defensive breakdowns that cost us the game? I don't know...just something to consider.

All the players need to be let go if they lost a game because of a dude yelling at them on the sidelines to do things the right way. These are grown men. Someone yelling at them is not an excuse to fail at your job.

Kahns - It's not immature to be distracted by someone in authority yelling at them. Nor is it an "excuse." It a natural human reaction to be distracted under those circumstances. Remember, Thibs isn't just grunting, he's yelling at them for mistakes they've just made AND telling them what to do on the court. Thibs, like Rick Carlisle, is an on-court micromanager who instructs players on essentially every play. So the players had bettter be listening to him, but naturally it can be distracting.

Importantly, the players ultimately have to adjust to Thibs style and perhaps they are finally doing that. But maybe, just maybe, Thibs should be and actually is toning down a bit and projecting a little more positivity into the team atmosphere. And perhaps that's part of why things are improving.

I heard Antonio Daniels interviewed this morning. He talked about when he played for Larry Brown and recalled that Brown constantly shouted at his players -- always criticizing and rarely praising. Daniels said that he ultimately tuned out Brown's voice to the point where he would hear the voice of a kid in the stands over the voice of his own head coach. He mentioned that when he got away from Brown and ended up playing for him years later as a seasoned veteran he appreciated what Brown was doing. Two points emerge from those comments of an actual NBA player who played for someone like Thibs. First, a head coach who relentlessly barks negatively at his players can lose the attention of those players. Second, it likely impacts younger players more than older ones. Neither of those points should shock anyone.

Coaching like any leadership position is a two-way street. On the one hand, players have to trust in their leader and adjust to their idiosyncrasies. On the other hand, leaders have to earn the trust of those under them and sometimes have to adjust their approaches to sync up with those they lead to get the most out of them. Another self-evident fact of leadership is that you're more likely to get the best out of those you lead if they feel loyal and devoted to you. I remember as a kid hearing Vikings wide receiver John Gilliam, in reference to his coach Bud Grant, saying "I'd run through a brick wall for that guy." That's the sort of feeling between a player and head coach that brings out the best.

I'll add this. I actually do think Thibs has the ability to connect with his players. I think he had to have connected in Chicago for the Bulls to have been so successful. I think it may be a bit more difficult for him here given the youth and personalities of our players, but by no means do I think it won't eventually happen here. In fact, I think he's already connected with Zach. Consider how well Zach has played this season and his ongoing improvement. I'll note that I've never seen Zach get into any verbal sparring with Thibs or hang his head after being yelled at -- which is unlike what I've seen from KAT, Wiggins and Ricky. I don't think it's because Zach is smarter and therefore better able to learn Thibs' schemes. Does anyone really think that? To the contrary, it's more likely attributable to Zach's obvious mental toughness. As a result, I think he's a better fit for a coach like Thibs. However, that doesn't mean KAT, Wiggins and the others can't ultimately adjust and make the sort of strides Zach has made this season.

There are some who are stuck on this argument being a black and while "either or" debate. I don't think it's that simple. Few things are. I think it's a matter of adjustments over time by both Thibs and his players. And I think we're seeing that two-way adjustment play out in front of us. Let's at least acknowledge the possibility that it could be a two-way equation and then let's enjoy the results.

[Lipoli390]

I actually don't think it's an argument about why we're winning. It's the massive improvement defensively that's turned us around a bit, though there's still plenty of work to be done. That's been the main difference in this team now compared to the beginning of the season. I doubt anyone would refute that.

The Wolves just can't afford to lose Friday. The Kings have also won three of their last four with two wins over the Grizzlies and one over the Jazz. We can't expect that to be an easy game and they've already beat us once this year. Keep the good times rollin'.

Cam -- I agree with you completely on the importance of tomorrow night's game against the Kings. I honestly don't care why we seem to have significantly improved. I just want the improvement to continue and the wins to keep coming. :)

[Monster]

Thibs was still screaming and storming the sidelines the Chicago and Houston game, I think it's just the team is learning how to finish now, Thibs berating players certainly had hasn't hurt us from amassing double digit leads in the majority of our games unless you think his screaming only counts in crunch time when we used to wilt in the final minutes.

I didn't see the Houston game, bloop, so I assume your observation is accurate. I don't think Thibs is going to completely change his behavior overnight (and he doesn't have to), but I do think he has made an effort recently to make some adjustments (in response to some strong suggestions from a group that has made him a very wealthy man). But let me invite you to consider this possibility: if he was screaming and storming during the Houston game, might that possibly be a contributing factor to the worst end-of-game collapse of the year? Lip and I have both pointed out instances where players have appeared distracted looking over to hear what Thibs was screaming, and could that have led to the defensive breakdowns that cost us the game? I don't know...just something to consider.

All the players need to be let go if they lost a game because of a dude yelling at them on the sidelines to do things the right way. These are grown men. Someone yelling at them is not an excuse to fail at your job.

Kahns - It's not immature to be distracted by someone in authority yelling at them. Nor is it an "excuse." It a natural human reaction to be distracted under those circumstances. Remember, Thibs isn't just grunting, he's yelling at them for mistakes they've just made AND telling them what to do on the court. So they should be listening because Thibs, like Rick Carlisle, is an on-court micromanager who instructs players on essentially every play. So the players had bettter be listening to him, but naturally it can be distracting.

Importantly, the players ultimately have to adjust to Thibs style and perhaps they are finally doing that. But maybe, just maybe, Thibs should and actually is toning down a bit and projecting a little more positivity into the team atmosphere. And perhaps that's it's part of why things are improving.

I heard Antonio Daniels interviewed this morning. He talked about when he played for Larry Brown and recalled that Brown constantly shouted at his players -- always criticizing and rarely praising. Daniels said that he ultimately tuned out Daniels to the point where he would hear the voice of a kid in the stands over the voice of his own head coach. He mentioned that when he got away from Brown and ended up playing for him years later as a seasoned veteran he appreciated what Brown was doing. Two points emerge from those comments of an actually NBA player who played for someone like Thibs. First, a head coach who relentlessly barks negatively at his players can lose the attention of those players. Second, it likely impacts younger players more than older ones. Neither of those points should shock anyone.

Coaching like any leadership position is a two-way street. One the one hand, players have to trust in their leader and adjust to their idiosyncrasies. One the other hand, leaders have to earn the trust of those under them and sometimes have to adjust their approaches to sync up with those they lead to get the most out of them. Another self-evident fact of leadership is that you're more likely to get the best out of those you lead if they feel loyal and devoted to you. I remember as a kid hearing Vikings wide receiver John Gilliam, in reference to his coach Bud Grant, saying "I'd run through a brick wall for that guy." That's the sort of feeling between a player and head coach that brings out the best.

I'll add this. I actually do think Thibs has the ability to connect with his players. I think he had to have connected in Chicago for the Bulls to have been so successful. I think it may be a bit more difficult for him here given the youth and personalities of our players, but by no means do I think it won't eventually happen here. In fact, I think he's already connected with Zach. Consider how well Zach has played this season and his ongoing improvement. I'll note that I've never seen Zach get into any verbal sparring with Thibs or hang his head after being yelled at -- which is unlike what I've seen from KAT, Wiggins and Ricky. I don't think it's because Zach is smarter and therefore better able to learn Thibs' schemes. Does anyone really think that? To the contrary, it's more likely attributable to Zach's obvious mental toughness. As a result, I think he's a better fit for a coach like Thibs. However, that doesn't mean KAT, Wiggins and the others can't ultimately adjust and make the sort of stride Zach has made this season.

There are some who are stuck on this argument being a black and while "either or" debate. I don't think it's that simple. Few things are. I think it's a matter of adjustments over time by both Thibs and his players. And I think we're seeing that two-way adjustment play out in front of us. Let's at least acknowledge the possibility that it could be a two-way equation and then let's enjoy the results.

Well thought out and written post Lip. I started listening to a book by Lonnie Wheeler a baseball author called "Intangiballs". It goes over what players go that can't be quantified on a stat sheet. I would t say there is anything particularly earth shattering but it is interesting to consider different ways people manage and different ways of team building. I think it makes the case for the Magic mentors of last year while also supports not bringing them all back this year to give the kids grow. Of course a lot of the stuff written is probably subjective but there is some good stories for sure. It supports a lot of my theories of why the Twins have sucked for all these years...you know besides their lack of talent and pitching! Lol