thedoper wrote:Not sure KAT will ever be able to put together the magical run Dirk had, he sure has no excuses now. Jason Kidd was such a smart player even in the twilight of his career. It would have been really nice if we could have brought in a vet with some championship level (or even multiple conference finals) pedigree. Maybe Lebron signs the vet min with us next year? I dont see that steadying vet force on this team this year, which may cost us a few games in the regular season and eventually could be a factor in us going super deep in the playoffs.
Doper - Do you think Taurean Prince and/or Kyle Anderson can be that steadying vet force? Or how about Gobert? I think the are plenty of experienced, mature vets on this team. I've named the three that immediately come to mind. So I'm not concerned about a lack of mature, level-headed vets. I have two concerns. First, will we have enough defensive talent and moxie with Beverley gone? Second, is Edwards ready to take a big step forward physically and mentally to where he can be a two-way star al la Dwayne Wade or Kobe? It doesn't matter how many mature steadying vets we have on the roster if Edwards isn't ready to lead this team to championship contention.
Lip, I dont think Gobert or Anderson are those guys. I think we are a very talented team that will take a while to gel and will likely take some lumps in our more high pressure games. I wish we had another vet, particularly one with the ball that could calm the game down when it matters. Pat Bev was a cheaper version of that who brought smart and timely D and smart plays and probably bumped us to 4 or 5 more wins last season. Im hoping with some noise this year we get even more prominent vets who consider us.
On Edwards, Im sure next year he will take a step up and still be capable of decision making lapses when the pressure is on, that is why you have smart vets on your team. I really like where the roster is at personally, I just dont think we are where the championship Mavs were at in terms of pedigree.
I see your point, Doper. I think it will be hard to fill the role that Pat Bev played on the team.
I just want to say that Beverly made some incredibly stupid plays at times including later in the game in that Memphis series. He often made a play soon after that probably made up for it but it should be mentioned he had some poor decision making.
Yeah, this is true. It was fun to watch Pat's intensity last season and I do believe he was instrumental in making us a tougher team, but his leadership was immature in many ways...I won't miss that. I much prefer the more grownup leadership our locker room will have this year. I have read recently that Prince is a terrific guy and someone that our younger players really look up to in the locker room. You can also tell by listening to Rudy Gobert that he is a veteran who is instantly going to have the respect of our young talent. And teammates have raved about Kyle Anderson' intensity and focused preparation. All three of these guys are going to provide a lot of value on the court this season, but I also think we have a nice triad of veteran leaders in the locker room.
thedoper wrote:Not sure KAT will ever be able to put together the magical run Dirk had, he sure has no excuses now. Jason Kidd was such a smart player even in the twilight of his career. It would have been really nice if we could have brought in a vet with some championship level (or even multiple conference finals) pedigree. Maybe Lebron signs the vet min with us next year? I dont see that steadying vet force on this team this year, which may cost us a few games in the regular season and eventually could be a factor in us going super deep in the playoffs.
Doper - Do you think Taurean Prince and/or Kyle Anderson can be that steadying vet force? Or how about Gobert? I think the are plenty of experienced, mature vets on this team. I've named the three that immediately come to mind. So I'm not concerned about a lack of mature, level-headed vets. I have two concerns. First, will we have enough defensive talent and moxie with Beverley gone? Second, is Edwards ready to take a big step forward physically and mentally to where he can be a two-way star al la Dwayne Wade or Kobe? It doesn't matter how many mature steadying vets we have on the roster if Edwards isn't ready to lead this team to championship contention.
Lip, I dont think Gobert or Anderson are those guys. I think we are a very talented team that will take a while to gel and will likely take some lumps in our more high pressure games. I wish we had another vet, particularly one with the ball that could calm the game down when it matters. Pat Bev was a cheaper version of that who brought smart and timely D and smart plays and probably bumped us to 4 or 5 more wins last season. Im hoping with some noise this year we get even more prominent vets who consider us.
On Edwards, Im sure next year he will take a step up and still be capable of decision making lapses when the pressure is on, that is why you have smart vets on your team. I really like where the roster is at personally, I just dont think we are where the championship Mavs were at in terms of pedigree.
I see your point, Doper. I think it will be hard to fill the role that Pat Bev played on the team.
I just want to say that Beverly made some incredibly stupid plays at times including later in the game in that Memphis series. He often made a play soon after that probably made up for it but it should be mentioned he had some poor decision making.
Yeah, this is true. It was fun to watch Pat's intensity last season and I do believe he was instrumental in making us a tougher team, but his leadership was immature in many ways...I won't miss that. I much prefer the more grownup leadership our locker room will have this year. I have read recently that Prince is a terrific guy and someone that our younger players really look up to in the locker room. You can also tell by listening to Rudy Gobert that he is a veteran who is instantly going to have the respect of our young talent. And teammates have raved about Kyle Anderson' intensity and focused preparation. All three of these guys are going to provide a lot of value on the court this season, but I also think we have a nice triad of veteran leaders in the locker room.
Austin Rivers...maybe not so much :confused:
Austin Rivers can bring a little of the edge that Beverly had which I think isn't a bad thing. I'll also add that his time in Denver he didn't take very many shots on the whole. Basically he took about as many shots per 36 as Jordan McLaughlin. He can still go off for some good scoring games but he really isn't a guy out there hunting shots like I think he has a reputation of doing. During his time in Denver he took 2/3 of his shots from the 3 point line.
thedoper wrote:Not sure KAT will ever be able to put together the magical run Dirk had, he sure has no excuses now. Jason Kidd was such a smart player even in the twilight of his career. It would have been really nice if we could have brought in a vet with some championship level (or even multiple conference finals) pedigree. Maybe Lebron signs the vet min with us next year? I dont see that steadying vet force on this team this year, which may cost us a few games in the regular season and eventually could be a factor in us going super deep in the playoffs.
Doper - Do you think Taurean Prince and/or Kyle Anderson can be that steadying vet force? Or how about Gobert? I think the are plenty of experienced, mature vets on this team. I've named the three that immediately come to mind. So I'm not concerned about a lack of mature, level-headed vets. I have two concerns. First, will we have enough defensive talent and moxie with Beverley gone? Second, is Edwards ready to take a big step forward physically and mentally to where he can be a two-way star al la Dwayne Wade or Kobe? It doesn't matter how many mature steadying vets we have on the roster if Edwards isn't ready to lead this team to championship contention.
Lip, I dont think Gobert or Anderson are those guys. I think we are a very talented team that will take a while to gel and will likely take some lumps in our more high pressure games. I wish we had another vet, particularly one with the ball that could calm the game down when it matters. Pat Bev was a cheaper version of that who brought smart and timely D and smart plays and probably bumped us to 4 or 5 more wins last season. Im hoping with some noise this year we get even more prominent vets who consider us.
On Edwards, Im sure next year he will take a step up and still be capable of decision making lapses when the pressure is on, that is why you have smart vets on your team. I really like where the roster is at personally, I just dont think we are where the championship Mavs were at in terms of pedigree.
I see your point, Doper. I think it will be hard to fill the role that Pat Bev played on the team.
I just want to say that Beverly made some incredibly stupid plays at times including later in the game in that Memphis series. He often made a play soon after that probably made up for it but it should be mentioned he had some poor decision making.
Yeah, this is true. It was fun to watch Pat's intensity last season and I do believe he was instrumental in making us a tougher team, but his leadership was immature in many ways...I won't miss that. I much prefer the more grownup leadership our locker room will have this year. I have read recently that Prince is a terrific guy and someone that our younger players really look up to in the locker room. You can also tell by listening to Rudy Gobert that he is a veteran who is instantly going to have the respect of our young talent. And teammates have raved about Kyle Anderson' intensity and focused preparation. All three of these guys are going to provide a lot of value on the court this season, but I also think we have a nice triad of veteran leaders in the locker room.
Austin Rivers...maybe not so much :confused:
Austin Rivers can bring a little of the edge that Beverly had which I think isn't a bad thing. I'll also add that his time in Denver he didn't take very many shots on the whole. Basically he took about as many shots per 36 as Jordan McLaughlin. He can still go off for some good scoring games but he really isn't a guy out there hunting shots like I think he has a reputation of doing. During his time in Denver he took 2/3 of his shots from the 3 point line.
Monster, I was referring to reports that Rivers hasn't exactly been the most popular guy on his teams. I think it might be more circumstantial though than an actual reflection on Austin. He may be perceived as a privileged guy who grew up with money and went to Duke and was the coach's son, and that might cause some resentment. But he is a vet who has had some success, so maybe he will be a positive influence on our youngsters too.
thedoper wrote:Not sure KAT will ever be able to put together the magical run Dirk had, he sure has no excuses now. Jason Kidd was such a smart player even in the twilight of his career. It would have been really nice if we could have brought in a vet with some championship level (or even multiple conference finals) pedigree. Maybe Lebron signs the vet min with us next year? I dont see that steadying vet force on this team this year, which may cost us a few games in the regular season and eventually could be a factor in us going super deep in the playoffs.
Doper - Do you think Taurean Prince and/or Kyle Anderson can be that steadying vet force? Or how about Gobert? I think the are plenty of experienced, mature vets on this team. I've named the three that immediately come to mind. So I'm not concerned about a lack of mature, level-headed vets. I have two concerns. First, will we have enough defensive talent and moxie with Beverley gone? Second, is Edwards ready to take a big step forward physically and mentally to where he can be a two-way star al la Dwayne Wade or Kobe? It doesn't matter how many mature steadying vets we have on the roster if Edwards isn't ready to lead this team to championship contention.
Lip, I dont think Gobert or Anderson are those guys. I think we are a very talented team that will take a while to gel and will likely take some lumps in our more high pressure games. I wish we had another vet, particularly one with the ball that could calm the game down when it matters. Pat Bev was a cheaper version of that who brought smart and timely D and smart plays and probably bumped us to 4 or 5 more wins last season. Im hoping with some noise this year we get even more prominent vets who consider us.
On Edwards, Im sure next year he will take a step up and still be capable of decision making lapses when the pressure is on, that is why you have smart vets on your team. I really like where the roster is at personally, I just dont think we are where the championship Mavs were at in terms of pedigree.
I see your point, Doper. I think it will be hard to fill the role that Pat Bev played on the team.
I just want to say that Beverly made some incredibly stupid plays at times including later in the game in that Memphis series. He often made a play soon after that probably made up for it but it should be mentioned he had some poor decision making.
Yeah, this is true. It was fun to watch Pat's intensity last season and I do believe he was instrumental in making us a tougher team, but his leadership was immature in many ways...I won't miss that. I much prefer the more grownup leadership our locker room will have this year. I have read recently that Prince is a terrific guy and someone that our younger players really look up to in the locker room. You can also tell by listening to Rudy Gobert that he is a veteran who is instantly going to have the respect of our young talent. And teammates have raved about Kyle Anderson' intensity and focused preparation. All three of these guys are going to provide a lot of value on the court this season, but I also think we have a nice triad of veteran leaders in the locker room.
Austin Rivers...maybe not so much :confused:
Austin Rivers can bring a little of the edge that Beverly had which I think isn't a bad thing. I'll also add that his time in Denver he didn't take very many shots on the whole. Basically he took about as many shots per 36 as Jordan McLaughlin. He can still go off for some good scoring games but he really isn't a guy out there hunting shots like I think he has a reputation of doing. During his time in Denver he took 2/3 of his shots from the 3 point line.
Monster, I was referring to reports that Rivers hasn't exactly been the most popular guy on his teams. I think it might be more circumstantial though than an actual reflection on Austin. He may be perceived as a privileged guy who grew up with money and went to Duke and was the coach's son, and that might cause some resentment. But he is a vet who has had some success, so maybe he will be a positive influence on our youngsters too.
One thing that's kinda interesting about Rivers is he has spent a significant portion of his career playing with some of the best players in the NBA. Heck he even played with AD in New Orleans. After that he played with Chris Paul with the Clippers and later with the Rockets, James Harden and then Jokic in Denver. He might be a guy with an interesting/useful perspective for young guys to hear from. The teams he has been on have only missed the playoffs 3 times in 10 years and one of those was a Clippers team that still won 42 games.
Q-was-here wrote:I looked back at the top 5 guys in terms of playoff minutes played of championship teams over the past 10-15 years....In a bunch of cases, 2-3 or more of the top 5 guys are in their 30s. And that includes the Mavs team:
Dirk - 32
Kidd - 37
Marion - 32
Terry - 33
Chandler - 28
Only one of these guys was "in his prime" from a regular season perspective. But the playoffs are a different animal.
Oh, and times haven't changes so much!
2022::
Klay - 31
Wiggins - 26
Curry - 33
Green - 31
Poole - 22
Yeah that is really interesting. You need some youth for energy. But you also need some poise. Maybe Gobert gives us some of that, but its really hard if he wont be touching the ball in crunch time outside of offensive rebounds.
Here is the age of the Warriors top 7 players (minutes) when they won in 2015.
GS had won a playoff series and had made the playoffs in back to back seasons before their title run (only won 23 games before that) but Draymond Green's emergence was certainly one of the big factors in them taking the step forward and winning a championship. That season they added Sean Livingston. I think Kyle Anderson could have at least the type of impact Livingston did. The Wolves may be one vet short and some experience short of being legit title contenders this season but I don't think this year is championship or bust but it would be good to make some sort of legit playoff run though to take that next step.
Indeed, the 2015 Warriors are a bit of an exception to some of the other NBA Champions I cited because their three best players were all still pretty young - Curry, Thompson, and Draymond. And those three just proved again, now as older vets, that they could still win a title a full 7 seasons later.
I'll throw another recent one out there....Toronto:
My point in citing the ages of past champions - including Dallas - is that we tend to get a little too focused at times on having guys within the same window. Well, that window may be wider than what we all think!
Gobert - 30
KAT - 26
DLO - 26
Jaden - 21
Ant - 20
Their window with Gobert is at least 4 seasons IMO. The rest of the guys could stay together for at least another 5-6 seasons before age starts catching up with KAT a bit.
Hopefully we can get to the Conference Semis this year - that's my goal at least. Conference Finals would be even better, but I think going beyond that this season is a real stretch given the ages and playoff inexperience of 4 out of our top 5 guys.
Q-was-here wrote:My point in citing the ages of past champions - including Dallas - is that we tend to get a little too focused at times on having guys within the same window. Well, that window may be wider than what we all think!
Gobert - 30
KAT - 26
DLO - 26
Jaden - 21
Ant - 20
Their window with Gobert is at least 4 seasons IMO. The rest of the guys could stay together for at least another 5-6 seasons before age starts catching up with KAT a bit.
Hopefully we can get to the Conference Semis this year - that's my goal at least. Conference Finals would be even better, but I think going beyond that this season is a real stretch given the ages and playoff inexperience of 4 out of our top 5 guys.
