More information suggesting that the Wolves have a decent chance of ending up with Simmons.
All things I've noted here at one point or another. Good summary. I can't stress the last point enough. D'Angelo Russell and Ben Simmons have games that are built to play with each either. Think Steph Curry and Draymond Green albeit not anything close to that level. But the style, the strengths and weaknesses, the player molds, etc. Russell and Simmons will be a very dangerous duo. Oh, yeah, and then there's arguably the most skilled big in the history of the game in Karl-Anthony Towns and a future All-Star in Anthony Edwards. That foursome would be tough.
Wait I thought you said Tyrell Terry was the next Stephen Curry, Now its DLO? Oh, wait wasn't he the next Harden? Cam you crack me up with your ridiculous love for DLO.
More information suggesting that the Wolves have a decent chance of ending up with Simmons.
All things I've noted here at one point or another. Good summary. I can't stress the last point enough. D'Angelo Russell and Ben Simmons have games that are built to play with each either. Think Steph Curry and Draymond Green albeit not anything close to that level. But the style, the strengths and weaknesses, the player molds, etc. Russell and Simmons will be a very dangerous duo. Oh, yeah, and then there's arguably the most skilled big in the history of the game in Karl-Anthony Towns and a future All-Star in Anthony Edwards. That foursome would be tough.
Wait I thought you said Tyrell Terry was the next Stephen Curry, Now its DLO? Oh, wait wasn't he the next Harden? Cam you crack me up with your ridiculous love for DLO.
It'd be nice if you actually quoted me properly instead of making these takes up, but alas this is what I have come to expect from you. I'm certainly wrong from time to time, and I have disagreed with everyone here at least a handful of times, but I feel like my basketball takes are well-supported or objectively right more often than not. Can you say the same thing?
As I've suggested, no one is as high on DLO as Rosas is (possible exception - Cam). I also don't believe Simmons and DLO are a great fit together. I'm not saying they are a bad fit, but they both need the basketball in their hands to be most effective. That's not the case with Dray and Steph. If we could get Simmons while also losing DLO, Rosas is automatically the executive of the year.
The best thing Rosas has done to date was last years draft. I'll give him credit for finding Naz, and less for Vando and Nowell. But generally he has been terrible. That's why we're still projected to finish almost 20 games under .500. The move to get Culver sucked, the DLO trade sucked, and he hasn't done anything else to distinguish his tenure. He needs to get Simmons done to make us a playoff team and make an impression on the new ownership.
D-Loser wrote:My guess is DLo, Beasley, Vanderbilt and 2 1sts for Simmons and whatever bad contracts they want to escape from to make the money work.
Yikes... on the one hand, the only way for deals for players like Simmons is for each side to give up significant value. On the other, this strikes me as a terrible deal for the wolves, lol
Well yeah, but I view DLo as neutral value at best and Vanderbilt is completely redundant with Simmons. The one I wouldn't want to lose is Beasley
D-Loser wrote:My guess is DLo, Beasley, Vanderbilt and 2 1sts for Simmons and whatever bad contracts they want to escape from to make the money work.
Yikes... on the one hand, the only way for deals for players like Simmons is for each side to give up significant value. On the other, this strikes me as a terrible deal for the wolves, lol
Well yeah, but I view DLo as neutral value at best and Vanderbilt is completely redundant with Simmons. The one I wouldn't want to lose is Beasley
The Sixers don't really seem to have contracts they are looking to unload...unless you want to count Simmons. Lol
D-Loser wrote:Simmons ain't coming here without dlo going... plain and simple. The wolves just say they don't want to include DLo to save face with him if the deal doesn't work out. Any gm or poster on this forum who misses on Simmons because they don't want to include Dlo is INSANE. Rosas has shown me that's he's actually a decent gm and not insane. Like I've said before, DLo is actually a really good fit in phili. My guess is DLo, Beasley, Vanderbilt and 2 1sts for Simmons and whatever bad contracts they want to escape from to make the money work.
You know what team would be an even better fit for D'Angelo Russell? The Wolves, especially after they've acquired Ben Simmons. That's why he isn't being included in these trade talks. I agree with you that Gersson Rosas is a decent executive and has shown his savvy multiple times. I truly expect that he will trade for Simmons without losing Russell in the process. The only question to me is whether or not he also retains Jaden McDaniels or Malik Beasley in the process. I fully expect Minnesota's offer to be highly-reliant on draft picks and swaps for reasons I've explained ad nauseam.
Additionally, Jarred Vanderbilt will not be included in any deal. He will be back on the Wolves next year. The only question with him is if he'll be brought back on a multi-year deal or not.
I like Vanderbilt, but do you really want two guys that can't shoot at all? I don't. If we have Simmons, we need everyone else on the roster to be at least average shooters. I'm fine with keeping Russell if we can, but I much prefer to keep mcdaniels over Russell. I don't think we'd be able to keep both. Ideally I'd ship just ship DLo and filler, but that's not enough. I think DLo and Beasley could be good fits with Embid and Harris. Phili can afford to have weaker defensive guards because their center is elite defensively.
D-Loser wrote:My guess is DLo, Beasley, Vanderbilt and 2 1sts for Simmons and whatever bad contracts they want to escape from to make the money work.
Yikes... on the one hand, the only way for deals for players like Simmons is for each side to give up significant value. On the other, this strikes me as a terrible deal for the wolves, lol
Well yeah, but I view DLo as neutral value at best and Vanderbilt is completely redundant with Simmons. The one I wouldn't want to lose is Beasley
The Sixers don't really seem to have contracts they are looking to unload...unless you want to count Simmons. Lol
More information suggesting that the Wolves have a decent chance of ending up with Simmons.
All things I've noted here at one point or another. Good summary. I can't stress the last point enough. D'Angelo Russell and Ben Simmons have games that are built to play with each either. Think Steph Curry and Draymond Green albeit not anything close to that level. But the style, the strengths and weaknesses, the player molds, etc. Russell and Simmons will be a very dangerous duo. Oh, yeah, and then there's arguably the most skilled big in the history of the game in Karl-Anthony Towns and a future All-Star in Anthony Edwards. That foursome would be tough.
Cam - You've persuaded me on the DLO/Simmons combo, which I was initially skeptical about. But would you trade DLO if necessary to get Simmons? If so, who or what else (if anything) would you be willing to give up along with DLO.
Firstly, I obviously think that Ben Simmons is obtainable without including D'Angelo Russell and the collection of talent afterwards, including Russell, is what really excites me. Those pieces work really well together in theory. But to answer your question, I wouldn't include Russell. I'm sure I'll wake up my haters with that take (ha), but I feel good about this team with the current talent that's already on it. I figured this team had a chance to win 41-ish games with no further moves after acquiring Patrick Beverley. If Minnesota doesn't land Simmons, then I'll be bummed because that's a great opportunity, but I'll revert back to my prior excitement about finally getting to see what this core looks like.
I still don't see Morey settling for two role players (e.g., Beasley/Prince), even though Beasley is a very good one, and a bunch of future picks in exchange for Simmons. That's just my sense and I know you disagree for the reasons you've given. I think the Wolves will have to give up DLO and still give up multiple first-round picks. I'd trade DLO and a couple second-round picks for Simmons and maybe DLO plus one lightly protected 1-round pick, but that's it. I wouldn't give up both DLO and multiple 1st rounders and I wouldn't include McDaniels or Beasley with DLO either. I'm afraid that Rosas will overpay for Simmons. I think Rosas showed savvy in his deal for Beverley, but otherwise, I haven't seen any savvy from him. Quite the opposite. Rosas (or someone else in the organization) seems to have a good eye for young talent. But savvy? I still don't see it and, therefore, I don't trust Rosas in this situation. Because I think Rosas will overpay, I'd rather just go forward with the players we have, including Vanderbilt. And I'd still like to see us add Hartenstein or Giles.
D-Loser wrote:Simmons ain't coming here without dlo going... plain and simple. The wolves just say they don't want to include DLo to save face with him if the deal doesn't work out. Any gm or poster on this forum who misses on Simmons because they don't want to include Dlo is INSANE. Rosas has shown me that's he's actually a decent gm and not insane. Like I've said before, DLo is actually a really good fit in phili. My guess is DLo, Beasley, Vanderbilt and 2 1sts for Simmons and whatever bad contracts they want to escape from to make the money work.
You know what team would be an even better fit for D'Angelo Russell? The Wolves, especially after they've acquired Ben Simmons. That's why he isn't being included in these trade talks. I agree with you that Gersson Rosas is a decent executive and has shown his savvy multiple times. I truly expect that he will trade for Simmons without losing Russell in the process. The only question to me is whether or not he also retains Jaden McDaniels or Malik Beasley in the process. I fully expect Minnesota's offer to be highly-reliant on draft picks and swaps for reasons I've explained ad nauseam.
Additionally, Jarred Vanderbilt will not be included in any deal. He will be back on the Wolves next year. The only question with him is if he'll be brought back on a multi-year deal or not.
I like Vanderbilt, but do you really want two guys that can't shoot at all? I don't. If we have Simmons, we need everyone else on the roster to be at least average shooters. I'm fine with keeping Russell if we can, but I much prefer to keep mcdaniels over Russell. I don't think we'd be able to keep both. Ideally I'd ship just ship DLo and filler, but that's not enough. I think DLo and Beasley could be good fits with Embid and Harris. Phili can afford to have weaker defensive guards because their center is elite defensively.
I get what you're saying and I think it's sensible. Here's where I disagree with you, though. I think Jarred Vanderbilt returns to Minnesota regardless of the pursuit of Ben Simmons. He'll either be the starting four if the Wolves can't acquire Simmons, or he'll be backing him up in the event they trade for him. I don't expect the two to share much time on the court for the reasons you mentioned -- unless it's a defensive situation.
I like Jaden McDaniels as much as the next guy -- okay, not as much as Cool and Lip -- and I really think Gersson Rosas is going to offer almost everything that he can if it means keeping him, but McDaniels is not a blue-chip prospect like an Anthony Edwards is. I think McDaniels, while a fine young player, could be replaced either with a pick or in free agency. I think sometimes he gets talked about like Edwards on this board and he's just not that level of player.
Lip, there's a number of moves that Gersson Rosas has made that I find to be savvy. He's also made some very questionable or downright bad moves. We clearly differ in our views of the D'Angelo Russell trade. In my opinion, his moves are probably more good than bad at this point, which is why we find ourselves in a position to acquire an All-NBA player while still fielding a worthwhile team around him.
