Camden wrote:Eric Bledsoe, George Hill, 2020 first-round pick (via Milwaukee via Indiana), 2025 unprotected first-round pick (via Milwaukee), 2027 unprotected first-round pick (via Milwaukee), 2024 first-round pick swap (via Milwaukee), and 2026 first-round pick swap (via Milwaukee)
This was ultimately the price Milwaukee paid to acquire a 30-year old Jrue Holiday with two years (one player-option) left on his contract. Granted, Holiday's situation in New Orleans wasn't nearly as tumultuous as what we might be seeing with Ben Simmons in Philadelphia, but I think it's a good comparison for what they'll eventually get back for him. Philadelphia is not going to get a deal comparable to the one Houston received for James Harden. That's just not happening. The Holiday trade appears to be much closer in value and I thought it'd be interesting to bring it up here.
Holiday and the Butler trade (Bayless, RoCo, Saric, and 2022 2nd round pick was the return for us, right?) seem more comparable to a Simmons return for Philly versus the returns on Harden or Anthony Davis.
Camden wrote:Eric Bledsoe, George Hill, 2020 first-round pick (via Milwaukee via Indiana), 2025 unprotected first-round pick (via Milwaukee), 2027 unprotected first-round pick (via Milwaukee), 2024 first-round pick swap (via Milwaukee), and 2026 first-round pick swap (via Milwaukee)
This was ultimately the price Milwaukee paid to acquire a 30-year old Jrue Holiday with two years (one player-option) left on his contract. Granted, Holiday's situation in New Orleans wasn't nearly as tumultuous as what we might be seeing with Ben Simmons in Philadelphia, but I think it's a good comparison for what they'll eventually get back for him. Philadelphia is not going to get a deal comparable to the one Houston received for James Harden. That's just not happening. The Holiday trade appears to be much closer in value and I thought it'd be interesting to bring it up here.
Holiday and the Butler trade (Bayless, RoCo, Saric, and 2022 2nd round pick was the return for us, right?) seem more comparable to a Simmons return for Philly versus the returns on Harden or Anthony Davis.
Exactly right, Q. I tend to think Philadelphia will get more than what Minnesota got for Jimmy Butler simply because Ben Simmons is 25-years old and under contract for four more years -- Butler was 29 and on an expiring deal for comparison. But the haul will certainly look closer to the Butler and Jrue Holiday packages than the James Harden and Anthony Davis packages.
The Sixers' front office -- mainly Daryl Morey -- will eventually have to come to this realization.
If we look at that package for Holiday, specifically, it's not too different from the trade ideas some of us have thrown around here built around Malik Beasley, Taurean Prince, and multiple first-round picks.
The main difference is that Philadelphia is a rare contender who is trading one of their pillars so it's not like they'll be rebuilding by any means. But in the end the Sixers will take the best package value-wise -- draft picks or players -- and likely be very active near the trade deadline regardless of where Simmons ends up. That's the conclusion to this, I feel.
Where Will Ben Simmons Play Game 1 of the 2021-2022 Regular Season?
- Philadelphia +200
- Minnesota +300
- Portland +400
- Sacramento +500
- Cleveland +800
- Golden State +1200
- Toronto +1600
- San Antonio +2500
- Indiana +3000
- Detroit +3000
Camden wrote:Eric Bledsoe, George Hill, 2020 first-round pick (via Milwaukee via Indiana), 2025 unprotected first-round pick (via Milwaukee), 2027 unprotected first-round pick (via Milwaukee), 2024 first-round pick swap (via Milwaukee), and 2026 first-round pick swap (via Milwaukee)
This was ultimately the price Milwaukee paid to acquire a 30-year old Jrue Holiday with two years (one player-option) left on his contract. Granted, Holiday's situation in New Orleans wasn't nearly as tumultuous as what we might be seeing with Ben Simmons in Philadelphia, but I think it's a good comparison for what they'll eventually get back for him. Philadelphia is not going to get a deal comparable to the one Houston received for James Harden. That's just not happening. The Holiday trade appears to be much closer in value and I thought it'd be interesting to bring it up here.
Holiday and the Butler trade (Bayless, RoCo, Saric, and 2022 2nd round pick was the return for us, right?) seem more comparable to a Simmons return for Philly versus the returns on Harden or Anthony Davis.
Exactly right, Q. I tend to think Philadelphia will get more than what Minnesota got for Jimmy Butler simply because Ben Simmons is 25-years old and under contract for four more years -- Butler was 29 and on an expiring deal for comparison. But the haul will certainly look closer to the Butler and Jrue Holiday packages than the James Harden and Anthony Davis packages.
The Sixers' front office -- mainly Daryl Morey -- will eventually have to come to this realization.
If we look at that package for Holiday, specifically, it's not too different from the trade ideas some of us have thrown around here built around Malik Beasley, Taurean Prince, and multiple first-round picks.
The main difference is that Philadelphia is a rare contender who is trading one of their pillars so it's not like they'll be rebuilding by any means. But in the end the Sixers will take the best package value-wise -- draft picks or players -- and likely be very active near the trade deadline regardless of where Simmons ends up. That's the conclusion to this, I feel.
The Holiday deal is a good one to bring up. That was an absolute haul for a guy that's not a star. Why was the market so strong for Holiday? He is a guy that can play multiple positions play either as a true PG or as a true Sg play in pretty much any system and he could shoot and was one of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA as we saw first hand in the Finals. That's a really good all around player that can compliment others and make them better. Damn no wonder he had a good market.
Simmons is younger and signed for a longer period but also for a lot of money. He probably can fit a lot of teams but there are legit concerns for some people about fit because...that's why he is available. Jrue wasn't asking out and the Pelicans didn't actually want to trade him. Teams had to offer up something to change their minds and then enough teams wanted him they bid for him and the Bucks won big time as he was a significant piece to them winning a championship. Simmons is valuable but he wants out and the Sixers do want to trade him. Teams aren't going to let someone else get him cheap but I don't think there will end up being a bidding war...unless maybe 2 teams decide they just really want Simmons which certainly could happen.
I'll be honest I wouldn't have done that deal to acquire Holiday. The Bucks won a championship so I am wrong. I thought the move absolutely made sense I just thought it was a lot to give up. Maybe we should give up what it takes to get Simmons and become a legitimately possible contender. The Holiday trade is interesting to consider thanks Cam for bringing that up.
Ha. I think I'm with you, monster. I likely wouldn't have paid that price to get Jrue Holiday despite being a long-time fan of his game... But I also wouldn't have allowed Malcolm Brogdon to leave via sign-and-trade to Indiana. That was insane to me. I still like the odds of Milwaukee winning a championship in that alternative reality.
But there's no arguing with results and the Bucks won the NBA championship so kudos to them.
Camden0916 wrote:Ha. I think I'm with you, monster. I likely wouldn't have paid that price to get Jrue Holiday despite being a long-time fan of his game... But I also wouldn't have allowed Malcolm Brogdon to leave via sign-and-trade to Indiana. That was insane to me. I still like the odds of Milwaukee winning a championship in that alternative reality.
But there's no arguing with results and the Bucks won the NBA championship so kudos to them.
I thought letting Brogdon go might have been defendable depending on what they did to replace him but other than some cheap signings and I guess maybe keeping someone else they couldn't have they really didn't. They ended up making the move to get Jrue and later went all in to get Tucker during the season. It would have been interesting if they had been able to get Bogdonovic last offseason but that trade got screwed up. I personally thought that was not going to be a good trade for them because I think Divincenzo is a good player. They won a championship without him but if they want to keep contending I think he needs to be a piece going forward.
Just for fun I looked up who was picked with the Indiana pick they got for Brogdon. It was RJ Hampton.
In a prior post, Monster raised the specter of Ben Simmons' work ethic, or lack thereof. So I found, read and posted some articles on the topic. Simmons is an incredibly gifted basketball player who has been an elite defender as well as a very good playmaker since coming into the League. But there are some concerns that should give would-be suitors some pause before giving up a lot of valuable assets to get him. And it's not just his shooting woes. It's what might be behind those shooting woes. There's a reason Philly has been shopping him and why the market for him hasn't been particularly hot.
lipoli390 wrote:In a prior post, Monster raised the specter of Ben Simmons' work ethic, or lack thereof. So I found, read and posted some articles on the topic. Simmons is an incredibly gifted basketball player who has been an elite defender as well as a very good playmaker since coming into the League. But there are some concerns that should give would-be suitors some pause before giving up a lot of valuable assets to get him. And it's not just his shooting woes. It's what might be behind those shooting woes. There's a reason Philly has been shopping him and why the market for him hasn't been particularly hot.
Let's say some of the stuff in these articles is true. You can throw out the idea that Ben Simmons is just a nice guy and he will show up for the Sixers. I kinda doubted he would show up even if he is a nice guy but yeah. Lol
To me the bigger issue is whether or not it's true he doesn't really work hard on his game. If that's the case you can bet every team knows about this. There are 2 sides. Obviously a high level basketball player not working on his weaknesses is problematic. On the other hand if somehow you get him to actually put in the work then maybe you unlock something we haven't seen before. Who is betting on that to happen? I'm usually an optimist but I'm mostly looking at Simmons being who he is strengths and flaws. I can see him improving within his current skill set especially if he ends up with the right team that's a great fit.
Again I'm not trying to make Simmons a bad guy and these articles lol found are worth considering. If anyone else has something to add please do. I think something that hasn't been considered enough is whether the Wolves franchise can manage Towns Ant Russell Simmons and make all them happy. It would be a good problem to have but there is potential for it to go sideways even if Simmons is a good dude or whatever.
