Ben Simmons Talk Revived

[Wolvesfan21]

In a prior post, Monster raised the specter of Ben Simmons' work ethic, or lack thereof. So I found, read and posted some articles on the topic. Simmons is an incredibly gifted basketball player who has been an elite defender as well as a very good playmaker since coming into the League. But there are some concerns that should give would-be suitors some pause before giving up a lot of valuable assets to get him. And it's not just his shooting woes. It's what might be behind those shooting woes. There's a reason Philly has been shopping him and why the market for him hasn't been particularly hot.

https://thesixersense.com/2016/05/25/does-ben-simmons-have-work-ethic-concerns/

https://thespun.com/nba/philadelphia-76ers/stephen-a-smith-ben-simmons-work-ethic-babied-shooting

https://thespun.com/nba/philadelphia-76ers/stephen-a-smith-ben-simmons-work-ethic-babied-shooting

https://fastphillysports.com/sixers-simmons-work-ethic-he-does-not-put-in-the-time-to-improve-as-a-shooter/

https://www.mediaite.com/sports/shaq-slams-nba-stars-work-ethic-30-million-to-dribble-a-basketball-youre-obligated-to-put-on-a-good-show/

https://www.thestar.com/sports/doug_smiths_sports_blog/2021/07/14/serious-questions-must-be-dealt-with-before-any-ben-simmons-trad.html

Thanks for posting this Lip.

Let's say some of the stuff in these articles is true. You can throw out the idea that Ben Simmons is just a nice guy and he will show up for the Sixers. I kinda doubted he would show up even if he is a nice guy but yeah. Lol

To me the bigger issue is whether or not it's true he doesn't really work hard on his game. If that's the case you can bet every team knows about this. There are 2 sides. Obviously a high level basketball player not working on his weaknesses is problematic. On the other hand if somehow you get him to actually put in the work then maybe you unlock something we haven't seen before. Who is betting on that to happen? I'm usually an optimist but I'm mostly looking at Simmons being who he is strengths and flaws. I can see him improving within his current skill set especially if he ends up with the right team that's a great fit.

Again I'm not trying to make Simmons a bad guy and these articles lol found are worth considering. If anyone else has something to add please do. I think something that hasn't been considered enough is whether the Wolves franchise can manage Towns Ant Russell Simmons and make all them happy. It would be a good problem to have but there is potential for it to go sideways even if Simmons is a good dude or whatever.

I'm sure we've seen those offseason pick up game / workout videos where Simmons is draining 3 pointers right? I don't know if any of these rumors are true, he certainly could be a do minimum guy and rely on his talent.

But like you I agree, if thats the case, just maybe getting traded will inspire and humble him to take his game to the next level. A fresh start could be a reset to his mindset. But I think the chances of him all of a sudden being a good 3P shooter on his next team (MN?) is low. Likely lower then 25%. I think guys generally are who they are after so many years in the league.

Guys can and do certainly improve over time, but not drastically, that is rare.

But then again MN might be the best team he could go to. Philly fans are media are on the extreme side of things. They are quick to criticize players and we are MN nice right? He would have less pressure, less of a spotlight on him here. Maybe he could gain confidence with a new start and take off. Again I think it's unlikely, but possible.

[Monster]

In a prior post, Monster raised the specter of Ben Simmons' work ethic, or lack thereof. So I found, read and posted some articles on the topic. Simmons is an incredibly gifted basketball player who has been an elite defender as well as a very good playmaker since coming into the League. But there are some concerns that should give would-be suitors some pause before giving up a lot of valuable assets to get him. And it's not just his shooting woes. It's what might be behind those shooting woes. There's a reason Philly has been shopping him and why the market for him hasn't been particularly hot.

https://thesixersense.com/2016/05/25/does-ben-simmons-have-work-ethic-concerns/

https://thespun.com/nba/philadelphia-76ers/stephen-a-smith-ben-simmons-work-ethic-babied-shooting

https://thespun.com/nba/philadelphia-76ers/stephen-a-smith-ben-simmons-work-ethic-babied-shooting

https://fastphillysports.com/sixers-simmons-work-ethic-he-does-not-put-in-the-time-to-improve-as-a-shooter/

https://www.mediaite.com/sports/shaq-slams-nba-stars-work-ethic-30-million-to-dribble-a-basketball-youre-obligated-to-put-on-a-good-show/

https://www.thestar.com/sports/doug_smiths_sports_blog/2021/07/14/serious-questions-must-be-dealt-with-before-any-ben-simmons-trad.html

Thanks for posting this Lip.

Let's say some of the stuff in these articles is true. You can throw out the idea that Ben Simmons is just a nice guy and he will show up for the Sixers. I kinda doubted he would show up even if he is a nice guy but yeah. Lol

To me the bigger issue is whether or not it's true he doesn't really work hard on his game. If that's the case you can bet every team knows about this. There are 2 sides. Obviously a high level basketball player not working on his weaknesses is problematic. On the other hand if somehow you get him to actually put in the work then maybe you unlock something we haven't seen before. Who is betting on that to happen? I'm usually an optimist but I'm mostly looking at Simmons being who he is strengths and flaws. I can see him improving within his current skill set especially if he ends up with the right team that's a great fit.

Again I'm not trying to make Simmons a bad guy and these articles lol found are worth considering. If anyone else has something to add please do. I think something that hasn't been considered enough is whether the Wolves franchise can manage Towns Ant Russell Simmons and make all them happy. It would be a good problem to have but there is potential for it to go sideways even if Simmons is a good dude or whatever.

I'm sure we've seen those offseason pick up game / workout videos where Simmons is draining 3 pointers right? I don't know if any of these rumors are true, he certainly could be a do minimum guy and rely on his talent.

But like you I agree, if thats the case, just maybe getting traded will inspire and humble him to take his game to the next level. A fresh start could be a reset to his mindset. But I think the chances of him all of a sudden being a good 3P shooter on his next team (MN?) is low. Likely lower then 25%. I think guys generally are who they are after so many years in the league.

Guys can and do certainly improve over time, but not drastically, that is rare.

But then again MN might be the best team he could go to. Philly fans are media are on the extreme side of things. They are quick to criticize players and we are MN nice right? He would have less pressure, less of a spotlight on him here. Maybe he could gain confidence with a new start and take off. Again I think it's unlikely, but possible.

I'm joking around here but Philly was too harsh then was MN too nice? Rubio struggled to improve and so did Wiggins? Maybe we should have been harder on those guys? I'll work on changing my face.

Let's do some numbers work and compare to some other players. Simmons has attempted 34 three point shots in 4 seasons. How many total shots has he taken outside of 10 feet in his career? Any shots outside of 16 feet based on percentages from BB reference its less than 100 over 4 years. Giannis is a poor shooter outside the paint but he does take them and has for years.

Someone on Twitter said Brook Lopez didn't take 3's till whatever point in his career and the succeeded side Simmons getting there is possible. The big difference was before then Brook was taking around 15% of his shots that were long 2's over 16 feet from the basket. He shot over 40% on those shots in his career before he started chucking 3's. Rubio took 94 threes in his rookie season that was only 41 games due to injury. That's probably more shots than Simmons has taken outside of 16 feet in his entire career. Is it possible that Simmons could start to taking and make shots from a longer distance? Sure. Likely? Absolutely not and I'm typically more optimistic about these types of things.

All of us have heard about guys looking great in the offseason. I remember hearing reports of Corey Brewer shooting lights out in team workouts before seasons. I'm not going to completely discount any reports of positive workouts but there should be some reasonable skepticism.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

What's nice is that Minnesota doesn't need Ben Simmons to improve his game for them to benefit greatly from what he already provides. They would gladly take the player he is today for what they'll end up trading away for him. With that said, obviously you want every player to work hard and improve -- to get better -- so I'm not saying Simmons shouldn't put in the work or that Minnesota shouldn't do everything that they can to continue his development, but rather Simmons being an All-NBA level player and being maxed out is different than say Jaden McDaniels.

[Monster]

What's nice is that Minnesota doesn't need Ben Simmons to improve his game for them to benefit greatly from what he already provides. They would gladly take the player he is today for what they'll end up trading away for him. With that said, obviously you want every player to work hard and improve -- to get better -- so I'm not saying Simmons shouldn't put in the work or that Minnesota shouldn't do everything that they can to continue his development, but rather Simmons being an All-NBA level player and being maxed out is different than say Jaden McDaniels.

Yes I agree Simmons doesn't exactly need to improve his shooting. I'm just saying that I don't think people should get their hopes up. I also think that his offensive abilities could he heightened in ways that have nothing to do with his shooting which I know we have both suggested how he could do it.

IF...(and I do feel somewhat skeptical about the reports he doesn't work on his game very hard) he doesn't work hard on his game that is sort of a legit red flag. Like I said it's a 2 edge sword. If you somehow get him to do more then you may have a much better player. If you don't that could mean you have a guy that's basically not putting forth full effort towards being a championship player. Like I said I'm not sure I buy that it's a huge deal but if it is a concern it's not one to take too lightly. This is why in some cases I do have to defer a bit to sports executives because they do have more information than us. That doesn't mean they make better decisions though despite having that info.

Let's be honest if Towns was asking out and a fan of another team asked us if he had any flaws we could come up with some aside from his on the court play. How significant are they? Probably not that significant but we could probably say some stuff. Is Simmons sort of a diva that really just plays ball and shows off and doesn't do the hard drill work other players do in the offseason to get better? Idk. If there is questions about that I would certainly want to get some sort of answer before I give up the farm and my new Chevy truck to get him.

[Wolvesfan21]

In a prior post, Monster raised the specter of Ben Simmons' work ethic, or lack thereof. So I found, read and posted some articles on the topic. Simmons is an incredibly gifted basketball player who has been an elite defender as well as a very good playmaker since coming into the League. But there are some concerns that should give would-be suitors some pause before giving up a lot of valuable assets to get him. And it's not just his shooting woes. It's what might be behind those shooting woes. There's a reason Philly has been shopping him and why the market for him hasn't been particularly hot.

https://thesixersense.com/2016/05/25/does-ben-simmons-have-work-ethic-concerns/

https://thespun.com/nba/philadelphia-76ers/stephen-a-smith-ben-simmons-work-ethic-babied-shooting

https://thespun.com/nba/philadelphia-76ers/stephen-a-smith-ben-simmons-work-ethic-babied-shooting

https://fastphillysports.com/sixers-simmons-work-ethic-he-does-not-put-in-the-time-to-improve-as-a-shooter/

https://www.mediaite.com/sports/shaq-slams-nba-stars-work-ethic-30-million-to-dribble-a-basketball-youre-obligated-to-put-on-a-good-show/

https://www.thestar.com/sports/doug_smiths_sports_blog/2021/07/14/serious-questions-must-be-dealt-with-before-any-ben-simmons-trad.html

Thanks for posting this Lip.

Let's say some of the stuff in these articles is true. You can throw out the idea that Ben Simmons is just a nice guy and he will show up for the Sixers. I kinda doubted he would show up even if he is a nice guy but yeah. Lol

To me the bigger issue is whether or not it's true he doesn't really work hard on his game. If that's the case you can bet every team knows about this. There are 2 sides. Obviously a high level basketball player not working on his weaknesses is problematic. On the other hand if somehow you get him to actually put in the work then maybe you unlock something we haven't seen before. Who is betting on that to happen? I'm usually an optimist but I'm mostly looking at Simmons being who he is strengths and flaws. I can see him improving within his current skill set especially if he ends up with the right team that's a great fit.

Again I'm not trying to make Simmons a bad guy and these articles lol found are worth considering. If anyone else has something to add please do. I think something that hasn't been considered enough is whether the Wolves franchise can manage Towns Ant Russell Simmons and make all them happy. It would be a good problem to have but there is potential for it to go sideways even if Simmons is a good dude or whatever.

I'm sure we've seen those offseason pick up game / workout videos where Simmons is draining 3 pointers right? I don't know if any of these rumors are true, he certainly could be a do minimum guy and rely on his talent.

But like you I agree, if thats the case, just maybe getting traded will inspire and humble him to take his game to the next level. A fresh start could be a reset to his mindset. But I think the chances of him all of a sudden being a good 3P shooter on his next team (MN?) is low. Likely lower then 25%. I think guys generally are who they are after so many years in the league.

Guys can and do certainly improve over time, but not drastically, that is rare.

But then again MN might be the best team he could go to. Philly fans are media are on the extreme side of things. They are quick to criticize players and we are MN nice right? He would have less pressure, less of a spotlight on him here. Maybe he could gain confidence with a new start and take off. Again I think it's unlikely, but possible.

I'm joking around here but Philly was too harsh then was MN too nice? Rubio struggled to improve and so did Wiggins? Maybe we should have been harder on those guys? I'll work on changing my face.

Let's do some numbers work and compare to some other players. Simmons has attempted 34 three point shots in 4 seasons. How many total shots has he taken outside of 10 feet in his career? Any shots outside of 16 feet based on percentages from BB reference its less than 100 over 4 years. Giannis is a poor shooter outside the paint but he does take them and has for years.

Someone on Twitter said Brook Lopez didn't take 3's till whatever point in his career and the succeeded side Simmons getting there is possible. The big difference was before then Brook was taking around 15% of his shots that were long 2's over 16 feet from the basket. He shot over 40% on those shots in his career before he started chucking 3's. Rubio took 94 threes in his rookie season that was only 41 games due to injury. That's probably more shots than Simmons has taken outside of 16 feet in his entire career. Is it possible that Simmons could start to taking and make shots from a longer distance? Sure. Likely? Absolutely not and I'm typically more optimistic about these types of things.

All of us have heard about guys looking great in the offseason. I remember hearing reports of Corey Brewer shooting lights out in team workouts before seasons. I'm not going to completely discount any reports of positive workouts but there should be some reasonable skepticism.

Lopez was decent from the line though too wasn't he? Guys that shoot decent from the line can or have the ability to translate that back deeper, easier. Guys are generally good shooters or they are not.

Simmons simply doesn't have confidence I think, and sure I bet it's easier for him in the offseason when it doesn't matter. His lack of confidence though is probably justified, because he isn't a good shooter. Then you have Philly fans booing him, media hounding him to shoot and it's basically a downward spiral. The more he missed, the more fans boo, the more the media hounds him, keep the cycle going.

I think it would be unrealistic for us to expect him to change from what he is but if he has any chance to do it I think he has the best chance here. Like Cam said, we don't need him to shoot 3P's. If he does great, if he doesn't thats fine too. Just be a great defender, passer and finisher at the rim.

I do think he will get traded at some point this season or before the season starts, so we'll see who lands him. I just hope we don't have to give up too much.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I've felt all along that if the Wolves are serious about landing Simmons, they need to assume that he will be the exact same player he's been since he was a rookie. He's added literally nothing to his game and the same weaknesses exist.

My #1 fear if we land Simmons is that rather than him helping to change our defensive culture, our chronically poor culture changes him instead. I could easily see us scratching our heads at times wondering where the Philly version of Ben's defense went....

[Wolvesfan21]

I've felt all along that if the Wolves are serious about landing Simmons, they need to assume that he will be the exact same player he's been since he was a rookie. He's added literally nothing to his game and the same weaknesses exist.

My #1 fear if we land Simmons is that rather than him helping to change our defensive culture, our chronically poor culture changes him instead. I could easily see us scratching our heads at times wondering where the Philly version of Ben's defense went....

Patrick Beverley will be bringing the aggressiveness. No way can you go half ass when you goy a guy like that on defense. You need to step up to his level.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I've felt all along that if the Wolves are serious about landing Simmons, they need to assume that he will be the exact same player he's been since he was a rookie. He's added literally nothing to his game and the same weaknesses exist.

My #1 fear if we land Simmons is that rather than him helping to change our defensive culture, our chronically poor culture changes him instead. I could easily see us scratching our heads at times wondering where the Philly version of Ben's defense went....

Patrick Beverley will be bringing the aggressiveness. No way can you go half ass when you goy a guy like that on defense. You need to step up to his level.

That's assuming he stays with us in a trade scenario. Also, while he helps, he can't be the lone guy that holds people accountable. Heck, DLO didn't respond to Draymond Green - he sure as heck isn't going to be much bothered by Beverley's exhortations. KAT has yet to respond to anyone either. And those are our two team leaders!

[Wolvesfan21]

I've felt all along that if the Wolves are serious about landing Simmons, they need to assume that he will be the exact same player he's been since he was a rookie. He's added literally nothing to his game and the same weaknesses exist.

My #1 fear if we land Simmons is that rather than him helping to change our defensive culture, our chronically poor culture changes him instead. I could easily see us scratching our heads at times wondering where the Philly version of Ben's defense went....

Patrick Beverley will be bringing the aggressiveness. No way can you go half ass when you goy a guy like that on defense. You need to step up to his level.

That's assuming he stays with us in a trade scenario. Also, while he helps, he can't be the lone guy that holds people accountable. Heck, DLO didn't respond to Draymond Green - he sure as heck isn't going to be much bothered by Beverley's exhortations. KAT has yet to respond to anyone either. And those are our two team leaders!

I would think DLO would be leaving in the trade himself. That means Beverley is likely a starter.

I think a lineup of-

Bev
Ant
Jaden
Simmons
KAT

would be solid on defense. I also think KAT gives effort, too much at times, he simply needs to stay in front and wall up. Quit trying to block everything and swipe down drawing fouls. Let the guy shoot, just make it difficult on him and rebound. And don't let him get by you.

I think defense is fairly simple, stay in front and wall up.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I've felt all along that if the Wolves are serious about landing Simmons, they need to assume that he will be the exact same player he's been since he was a rookie. He's added literally nothing to his game and the same weaknesses exist.

My #1 fear if we land Simmons is that rather than him helping to change our defensive culture, our chronically poor culture changes him instead. I could easily see us scratching our heads at times wondering where the Philly version of Ben's defense went....

Patrick Beverley will be bringing the aggressiveness. No way can you go half ass when you goy a guy like that on defense. You need to step up to his level.

That's assuming he stays with us in a trade scenario. Also, while he helps, he can't be the lone guy that holds people accountable. Heck, DLO didn't respond to Draymond Green - he sure as heck isn't going to be much bothered by Beverley's exhortations. KAT has yet to respond to anyone either. And those are our two team leaders!

I would think DLO would be leaving in the trade himself. That means Beverley is likely a starter.

I think a lineup of-

Bev
Ant
Jaden
Simmons
KAT

would be solid on defense. I also think KAT gives effort, too much at times, he simply needs to stay in front and wall up. Quit trying to block everything and swipe down drawing fouls. Let the guy shoot, just make it difficult on him and rebound. And don't let him get by you.

I think defense is fairly simple, stay in front and wall up.

Agree that if DLO is gone, that lineup above puts us in a much better position defensively than if we traded Beasley + McD and Simmons ends up being the lone guy that can defend in the starting lineup.

Also agree that KAT's issues are a bit different from DLO. KAT tries, but it's often in a faux "look at how hard I'm working on defense!" way with poor technique and decision making. There is just such a lack of depth and discipline. After 6+ seasons of flailing about, he isn't going to change at this point.