Looks like the Wolves will be tanking in 2019-2020.

[kekgeek]

To be fair, it's disingenuous to say there was no "conceivable plan" to improve.

The Timberwolves gave Andrew Wiggins a max contract AFTER trading for Butler. Obviously, they didn't expect him to regress. And it's not like every single fan or poster disagreed with the move. Again, we're blaming Thibodeau for everything and letting woefully underwhelming and disappointing players off the hook.

This isn't absolving Thibodeau of everything. Only pointing out that the plan was for KAT + Butler + Wiggins be a Big 3. Turns out Wiggins has been a below-average player instead. Blame Thibs for that? In some ways... sure. But you have to blame the player too for not improving and actually getting worse.

See I don't think you can have it both ways. You can't be on here on a weekly basis pounding on how bad of a player Wiggins is, and then say the plan was for Wiggins to be part of a big 3. If he's that bad, than he should never be counted on to be part of your championship level core.

Why would my opinion about whether or not Wiggins should be part of that plan be in any way relevant to this discussion...

The plan was not mine. I'm not a Timberwolves employee. They never asked me my thoughts on Wiggins or Butler... I'm merely stating that obviously the team THOUGHT that Wiggins would improve, and was part of the long-term plan... otherwise they wouldn't have given him $146M.

If they gave him that contract while thinking he'd reach his peak... they're the worst franchise in the history of sports.

Well we know they're the worst franchise in the history of sports. But to your main point, even a Wiggins supporter like me knew the potential was capped the night of the Butler trade. So I"M telling YOU, there was no viable plan going forward to make us a championship contender. YOU can certainly disagree with that and argue that Thibs had a championship plan. But i think it makes YOU look hypocritical.

No offense. But you're not making much sense right now.




[Note: If you knew it was capped then... it's interesting that you waited nearly two years to finally admit that Wiggins sucked balls.]

I will always disagree with people that think Thibs didn't have a plan and that the Jimmy trade was a bad one. KAT hits his MVP potential, we get 4 prime years of Butler a top 20 if not better player in the NBA (last 2 years on his max contract would see decline) and hope Wiggins develops into an All Star player where he would be more efficient being the 3rd option, not having the opponents best defender guarding him and him not having to carry the offense and defend the opponents best player. Theoretically allowing Wiggins to excel at other aspects of the game not having to carry the team both ends of the court.

Now if you want to blame Thibs knowing the personality he was adding to the core in Butler, sure he deserves some of the blame. We were a 3rd seed before people got hurt. Being a third seed this year could of gotten us to the WCF. Then the Warriors lose Durant, Chris Paul gets another year older and he have a 2 year window of the wolves possibly being a title contender. And when Butler contract is up after the 4 year max, Wiggins and Towns are 28 and 27 in the prime of there career where they can possibly add another star with them if they developed how they hoped.

Thibs gave up no future draft picks. He actually added more draft picks than traded away in his tenor. It also all come back to the draft. If Thibs drafts Collins instead of Patton, Thibs would be considered a genies. Well he didn't and that is some of the reasons his plan failed.

Thibs had a plan and it did not work, It was a legit plan to be a consistent playoff team and possibly a contender. But we are in no better shape today with Dunn, Lavine who is a overpriced sixth man and Markannan who is good but how good can he get because for us competing with Markannan he would needed to become a top 20 player and I just don't see that.

Thibs plan failed but he had a logical plan to turn the wolves into a contender.

[Coolbreeze44]

To be fair, it's disingenuous to say there was no "conceivable plan" to improve.

The Timberwolves gave Andrew Wiggins a max contract AFTER trading for Butler. Obviously, they didn't expect him to regress. And it's not like every single fan or poster disagreed with the move. Again, we're blaming Thibodeau for everything and letting woefully underwhelming and disappointing players off the hook.

This isn't absolving Thibodeau of everything. Only pointing out that the plan was for KAT + Butler + Wiggins be a Big 3. Turns out Wiggins has been a below-average player instead. Blame Thibs for that? In some ways... sure. But you have to blame the player too for not improving and actually getting worse.

See I don't think you can have it both ways. You can't be on here on a weekly basis pounding on how bad of a player Wiggins is, and then say the plan was for Wiggins to be part of a big 3. If he's that bad, than he should never be counted on to be part of your championship level core.

Why would my opinion about whether or not Wiggins should be part of that plan be in any way relevant to this discussion...

The plan was not mine. I'm not a Timberwolves employee. They never asked me my thoughts on Wiggins or Butler... I'm merely stating that obviously the team THOUGHT that Wiggins would improve, and was part of the long-term plan... otherwise they wouldn't have given him $146M.

If they gave him that contract while thinking he'd reach his peak... they're the worst franchise in the history of sports.

Well we know they're the worst franchise in the history of sports. But to your main point, even a Wiggins supporter like me knew the potential was capped the night of the Butler trade. So I"M telling YOU, there was no viable plan going forward to make us a championship contender. YOU can certainly disagree with that and argue that Thibs had a championship plan. But i think it makes YOU look hypocritical.

No offense. But you're not making much sense right now. No offense. But you're not making much sense right now.




[Note: If you knew it was capped then... it's interesting that you waited nearly two years to finally admit that Wiggins sucked balls.]

Admittedly, i had the same thought after reading your previous response. Maybe we let this one go.

Oh, and never thought Wiggins sucked balls. Just came to realize he has limitations.

[Coolbreeze44]

To be fair, it's disingenuous to say there was no "conceivable plan" to improve.

The Timberwolves gave Andrew Wiggins a max contract AFTER trading for Butler. Obviously, they didn't expect him to regress. And it's not like every single fan or poster disagreed with the move. Again, we're blaming Thibodeau for everything and letting woefully underwhelming and disappointing players off the hook.

This isn't absolving Thibodeau of everything. Only pointing out that the plan was for KAT + Butler + Wiggins be a Big 3. Turns out Wiggins has been a below-average player instead. Blame Thibs for that? In some ways... sure. But you have to blame the player too for not improving and actually getting worse.

See I don't think you can have it both ways. You can't be on here on a weekly basis pounding on how bad of a player Wiggins is, and then say the plan was for Wiggins to be part of a big 3. If he's that bad, than he should never be counted on to be part of your championship level core.

Why would my opinion about whether or not Wiggins should be part of that plan be in any way relevant to this discussion...

The plan was not mine. I'm not a Timberwolves employee. They never asked me my thoughts on Wiggins or Butler... I'm merely stating that obviously the team THOUGHT that Wiggins would improve, and was part of the long-term plan... otherwise they wouldn't have given him $146M.

If they gave him that contract while thinking he'd reach his peak... they're the worst franchise in the history of sports.

Well we know they're the worst franchise in the history of sports. But to your main point, even a Wiggins supporter like me knew the potential was capped the night of the Butler trade. So I"M telling YOU, there was no viable plan going forward to make us a championship contender. YOU can certainly disagree with that and argue that Thibs had a championship plan. But i think it makes YOU look hypocritical.

No offense. But you're not making much sense right now.




[Note: If you knew it was capped then... it's interesting that you waited nearly two years to finally admit that Wiggins sucked balls.]

I will always disagree with people that think Thibs didn't have a plan and that the Jimmy trade was a bad one. KAT hits his MVP potential, we get 4 prime years of Butler a top 20 if not better player in the NBA (last 2 years on his max contract would see decline) and hope Wiggins develops into an All Star player where he would be more efficient being the 3rd option, not having the opponents best defender guarding him and him not having to carry the offense and defend the opponents best player. Theoretically allowing Wiggins to excel at other aspects of the game not having to carry the team both ends of the court.

Now if you want to blame Thibs knowing the personality he was adding to the core in Butler, sure he deserves some of the blame. We were a 3rd seed before people got hurt. Being a third seed this year could of gotten us to the WCF. Then the Warriors lose Durant, Chris Paul gets another year older and he have a 2 year window of the wolves possibly being a title contender. And when Butler contract is up after the 4 year max, Wiggins and Towns are 28 and 27 in the prime of there career where they can possibly add another star with them if they developed how they hoped.

Thibs gave up no future draft picks. He actually added more draft picks than traded away in his tenor. It also all come back to the draft. If Thibs drafts Collins instead of Patton, Thibs would be considered a genies. Well he didn't and that is some of the reasons his plan failed.

Thibs had a plan and it did not work, It was a legit plan to be a consistent playoff team and possibly a contender. But we are in no better shape today with Dunn, Lavine who is a overpriced sixth man and Markannan who is good but how good can he get because for us competing with Markannan he would needed to become a top 20 player and I just don't see that.

Thibs plan failed but he had a logical plan to turn the wolves into a contender.

Kek, you and I will have to agree to disagree. But let's be honest, history has proven I was right.

[kekgeek]

To be fair, it's disingenuous to say there was no "conceivable plan" to improve.

The Timberwolves gave Andrew Wiggins a max contract AFTER trading for Butler. Obviously, they didn't expect him to regress. And it's not like every single fan or poster disagreed with the move. Again, we're blaming Thibodeau for everything and letting woefully underwhelming and disappointing players off the hook.

This isn't absolving Thibodeau of everything. Only pointing out that the plan was for KAT + Butler + Wiggins be a Big 3. Turns out Wiggins has been a below-average player instead. Blame Thibs for that? In some ways... sure. But you have to blame the player too for not improving and actually getting worse.

See I don't think you can have it both ways. You can't be on here on a weekly basis pounding on how bad of a player Wiggins is, and then say the plan was for Wiggins to be part of a big 3. If he's that bad, than he should never be counted on to be part of your championship level core.

Why would my opinion about whether or not Wiggins should be part of that plan be in any way relevant to this discussion...

The plan was not mine. I'm not a Timberwolves employee. They never asked me my thoughts on Wiggins or Butler... I'm merely stating that obviously the team THOUGHT that Wiggins would improve, and was part of the long-term plan... otherwise they wouldn't have given him $146M.

If they gave him that contract while thinking he'd reach his peak... they're the worst franchise in the history of sports.

Well we know they're the worst franchise in the history of sports. But to your main point, even a Wiggins supporter like me knew the potential was capped the night of the Butler trade. So I"M telling YOU, there was no viable plan going forward to make us a championship contender. YOU can certainly disagree with that and argue that Thibs had a championship plan. But i think it makes YOU look hypocritical.

No offense. But you're not making much sense right now.




[Note: If you knew it was capped then... it's interesting that you waited nearly two years to finally admit that Wiggins sucked balls.]

I will always disagree with people that think Thibs didn't have a plan and that the Jimmy trade was a bad one. KAT hits his MVP potential, we get 4 prime years of Butler a top 20 if not better player in the NBA (last 2 years on his max contract would see decline) and hope Wiggins develops into an All Star player where he would be more efficient being the 3rd option, not having the opponents best defender guarding him and him not having to carry the offense and defend the opponents best player. Theoretically allowing Wiggins to excel at other aspects of the game not having to carry the team both ends of the court.

Now if you want to blame Thibs knowing the personality he was adding to the core in Butler, sure he deserves some of the blame. We were a 3rd seed before people got hurt. Being a third seed this year could of gotten us to the WCF. Then the Warriors lose Durant, Chris Paul gets another year older and he have a 2 year window of the wolves possibly being a title contender. And when Butler contract is up after the 4 year max, Wiggins and Towns are 28 and 27 in the prime of there career where they can possibly add another star with them if they developed how they hoped.

Thibs gave up no future draft picks. He actually added more draft picks than traded away in his tenor. It also all come back to the draft. If Thibs drafts Collins instead of Patton, Thibs would be considered a genies. Well he didn't and that is some of the reasons his plan failed.

Thibs had a plan and it did not work, It was a legit plan to be a consistent playoff team and possibly a contender. But we are in no better shape today with Dunn, Lavine who is a overpriced sixth man and Markannan who is good but how good can he get because for us competing with Markannan he would needed to become a top 20 player and I just don't see that.

Thibs plan failed but he had a logical plan to turn the wolves into a contender.

Kek, you and I will have to agree to disagree. But let's be honest, history has proven I was right.

Still wouldn't agree, Lavine and Dunn are negative assets and I would rather have Roco, Saric, 8 mil expiring and a 2nd instead of Markannan.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Lol RoCo alone impacts the game more than Dunn, Lavine and Lauri combined. The Bulls are not good and will likely continue to not be good because those guys are role players and not all-stars.

[Coolbreeze44]

Lol RoCo alone impacts the game more than Dunn, Lavine and Lauri combined. The Bulls are not good and will likely continue to not be good because those guys are role players and not all-stars.

I'm not going to get roped in to another of your tangents - but when did ROCO and Sarich make the all star game? And how much is RoCo worth when he's sitting out games?

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Lol RoCo alone impacts the game more than Dunn, Lavine and Lauri combined. The Bulls are not good and will likely continue to not be good because those guys are role players and not all-stars.

I'm not going to get roped in to another of your tangents - but when did ROCO and Sarich make the all star game? And how much is RoCo worth when he's sitting out games?

RoCo was a DPOY candidate before he got hurt this year. Rudy Gobert didn't make the all-star game last year when he won it almost like that game is a popularity contest that favors offense over defense and is meaningless when it comes to accounting for all the impact guys on the court in the league.

How many all-star games have Dunn, Zach and Lauri made? The East was wide open this year for representatives. How many games have they even won for that Bulls team? The bottom 3 playoff teams were bad in that conference this year and they couldn't even come close to getting a playoff spot. But sure. Keep arguing we'd be better off sporting the worst defensive team in NBA history with Dunn/Zach/Wiggins/Lauri/Towns since obviously that end of the court doesn't matter any more. Oh wait. It still does and 3 of the 4 teams left are great defensive teams. It makes 0 sense to say adding 3 core players from a terrible team makes us a better team than the 2 guys we got from a second round playoff team.

[crazy-canuck [enjin:18955461]]

I think all the lavine and butler talk should probably end.

[Coolbreeze44]

Lol RoCo alone impacts the game more than Dunn, Lavine and Lauri combined. The Bulls are not good and will likely continue to not be good because those guys are role players and not all-stars.

I'm not going to get roped in to another of your tangents - but when did ROCO and Sarich make the all star game? And how much is RoCo worth when he's sitting out games?

RoCo was a DPOY candidate before he got hurt this year. Rudy Gobert didn't make the all-star game last year when he won it almost like that game is a popularity contest that favors offense over defense and is meaningless when it comes to accounting for all the impact guys on the court in the league.

How many all-star games have Dunn, Zach and Lauri made? The East was wide open this year for representatives. How many games have they even won for that Bulls team? The bottom 3 playoff teams were bad in that conference this year and they couldn't even come close to getting a playoff spot. But sure. Keep arguing we'd be better off sporting the worst defensive team in NBA history with Dunn/Zach/Wiggins/Lauri/Towns since obviously that end of the court doesn't matter any more. Oh wait. It still does and 3 of the 4 teams left are great defensive teams. It makes 0 sense to say adding 3 core players from a terrible team makes us a better team than the 2 guys we got from a second round playoff team.

Just answer my questions. I don't need to read your senseless drivel.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Lol RoCo alone impacts the game more than Dunn, Lavine and Lauri combined. The Bulls are not good and will likely continue to not be good because those guys are role players and not all-stars.

I'm not going to get roped in to another of your tangents - but when did ROCO and Sarich make the all star game? And how much is RoCo worth when he's sitting out games?

RoCo was a DPOY candidate before he got hurt this year. Rudy Gobert didn't make the all-star game last year when he won it almost like that game is a popularity contest that favors offense over defense and is meaningless when it comes to accounting for all the impact guys on the court in the league.

How many all-star games have Dunn, Zach and Lauri made? The East was wide open this year for representatives. How many games have they even won for that Bulls team? The bottom 3 playoff teams were bad in that conference this year and they couldn't even come close to getting a playoff spot. But sure. Keep arguing we'd be better off sporting the worst defensive team in NBA history with Dunn/Zach/Wiggins/Lauri/Towns since obviously that end of the court doesn't matter any more. Oh wait. It still does and 3 of the 4 teams left are great defensive teams. It makes 0 sense to say adding 3 core players from a terrible team makes us a better team than the 2 guys we got from a second round playoff team.

Just answer my questions. I don't need to read your senseless drivel.

The answers are never and not much. Which happens to be the exact same answers if you ask the same questions of Dunn, Lavine and Lauri. Saric is the only player of the 5 who didn't miss 20 games or more last year and Covington is the only player of the 5 who has an actual NBA accolade of 1st Team All Defense in 2018. But I guess it makes sense to prefer 3 players miss significant time than just 1 and to have no accolades rather than 1st team all defense. That seems like a championship formula right there Mr. title or bust.