Q12543 wrote:Drew's scenario was very, very do-able, outside of Lowry perhaps. We really could have had Butler + George because Indiana would have easily taken Wiggins instead of what OKC offered them. Now I'm not suggesting we SHOULD have done that, but it would have been a bold move by Thibs and basically put us in the conversation of a top 3 team out West.
Q12543 wrote:Drew's scenario was very, very do-able, outside of Lowry perhaps. We really could have had Butler + George because Indiana would have easily taken Wiggins instead of what OKC offered them. Now I'm not suggesting we SHOULD have done that, but it would have been a bold move by Thibs and basically put us in the conversation of a top 3 team out West.
lipoli390 wrote:Q12543 wrote:Drew's scenario was very, very do-able, outside of Lowry perhaps. We really could have had Butler + George because Indiana would have easily taken Wiggins instead of what OKC offered them. Now I'm not suggesting we SHOULD have done that, but it would have been a bold move by Thibs and basically put us in the conversation of a top 3 team out West.
Lowry wasn't a "perhaps." It was a nonstarter giving what he got from Toronto. It's not like players were giving us discounts to sign them - case in point Taj. I agree that Indiana would have dealt George for Wiggins, but there's no way I'd make that deal if I were Thibs. The odds of him leaving after one season are WAY too high.
monsterpile wrote:lipoli390 wrote:Q12543 wrote:Drew's scenario was very, very do-able, outside of Lowry perhaps. We really could have had Butler + George because Indiana would have easily taken Wiggins instead of what OKC offered them. Now I'm not suggesting we SHOULD have done that, but it would have been a bold move by Thibs and basically put us in the conversation of a top 3 team out West.
Lowry wasn't a "perhaps." It was a nonstarter giving what he got from Toronto. It's not like players were giving us discounts to sign them - case in point Taj. I agree that Indiana would have dealt George for Wiggins, but there's no way I'd make that deal if I were Thibs. The odds of him leaving after one season are WAY too high.
I listened to the appearance of Mitch Lawrence on Barerrio from a few days ago and he said one theory that's out there is that even Ainge didn't think he was going to get George to sign a long term deal and so for them he was a rental and he may have not wanted to give up a lot for just one season of George. Honestly that makes some sense.
A couple other things I will mention.
He basically had the same reports about Teague as Jon K. Somewhat of a split throughout the league on Teague/swap. He basically thought Teague's defense was terrible and thought Thibs things he can coach him up.
They talked some about the Knicks and how fans had multiple parades now that Phil is gone but...who will they hire? Will the be any better? Could they be worse? Mitch said they need to hire a guy that has done this all before and Dan told him he knows just the guy for the job. He is available and already lives in NYC. David Kahn. lol I think he actually had Mitch intruiged before he said the name. :)
Mitch said that adding Gibson was a terrific move and he said he is a way better player than Patterson who he has heard some people (Wolves fans) are grumbling about the deals each guy got he said Taj is a way better player.
He said the Wolves were clearly one of the winners of the offseason so far. He said Boston was a winner but not a big winner. He said the Clippers might be a winner just because they won't be playing Chris paul 46 million a year when he is 38.
He mention JVG calling out Wiggins and Towns commitment to defense on his show and Dan said he basically said the same thing. Mitch said the reality is that Wiggins and Towns right now are young talented losers. They haven't won anything and haven't committed to defense and until they win and take the next step...that's what they are. It was harsh but it was interesting to hear that perspective from the outsider. He seemed to give Rubio a pass because he played defense.
Nothing really was earth shattering and there may have been a couple more interesting things there but yeah there was some kinda good stuff.
lipoli390 wrote:monsterpile wrote:lipoli390 wrote:Q12543 wrote:Drew's scenario was very, very do-able, outside of Lowry perhaps. We really could have had Butler + George because Indiana would have easily taken Wiggins instead of what OKC offered them. Now I'm not suggesting we SHOULD have done that, but it would have been a bold move by Thibs and basically put us in the conversation of a top 3 team out West.
Lowry wasn't a "perhaps." It was a nonstarter giving what he got from Toronto. It's not like players were giving us discounts to sign them - case in point Taj. I agree that Indiana would have dealt George for Wiggins, but there's no way I'd make that deal if I were Thibs. The odds of him leaving after one season are WAY too high.
I listened to the appearance of Mitch Lawrence on Barerrio from a few days ago and he said one theory that's out there is that even Ainge didn't think he was going to get George to sign a long term deal and so for them he was a rental and he may have not wanted to give up a lot for just one season of George. Honestly that makes some sense.
A couple other things I will mention.
He basically had the same reports about Teague as Jon K. Somewhat of a split throughout the league on Teague/swap. He basically thought Teague's defense was terrible and thought Thibs things he can coach him up.
They talked some about the Knicks and how fans had multiple parades now that Phil is gone but...who will they hire? Will the be any better? Could they be worse? Mitch said they need to hire a guy that has done this all before and Dan told him he knows just the guy for the job. He is available and already lives in NYC. David Kahn. lol I think he actually had Mitch intruiged before he said the name. :)
Mitch said that adding Gibson was a terrific move and he said he is a way better player than Patterson who he has heard some people (Wolves fans) are grumbling about the deals each guy got he said Taj is a way better player.
He said the Wolves were clearly one of the winners of the offseason so far. He said Boston was a winner but not a big winner. He said the Clippers might be a winner just because they won't be playing Chris paul 46 million a year when he is 38.
He mention JVG calling out Wiggins and Towns commitment to defense on his show and Dan said he basically said the same thing. Mitch said the reality is that Wiggins and Towns right now are young talented losers. They haven't won anything and haven't committed to defense and until they win and take the next step...that's what they are. It was harsh but it was interesting to hear that perspective from the outsider. He seemed to give Rubio a pass because he played defense.
Nothing really was earth shattering and there may have been a couple more interesting things there but yeah there was some kinda good stuff.
Good information, Monster. I didn't hear the interview so thanks for posting the summary. I have a lot of respect for Mitch. Believe me, I want out be wrong about Taj and Teague. But the most telling comment was the one about Towns and Wiggins. I agree with him completely. I've alway said and will continue to say that the fate of this franchise rests with the development and play of Wiggins and Towns. They need to step up their games defensively and Wiggins needs to step up his game in numerous other ways, including rebounding and ballhandling.
monsterpile wrote:lipoli390 wrote:monsterpile wrote:lipoli390 wrote:Q12543 wrote:Drew's scenario was very, very do-able, outside of Lowry perhaps. We really could have had Butler + George because Indiana would have easily taken Wiggins instead of what OKC offered them. Now I'm not suggesting we SHOULD have done that, but it would have been a bold move by Thibs and basically put us in the conversation of a top 3 team out West.
Lowry wasn't a "perhaps." It was a nonstarter giving what he got from Toronto. It's not like players were giving us discounts to sign them - case in point Taj. I agree that Indiana would have dealt George for Wiggins, but there's no way I'd make that deal if I were Thibs. The odds of him leaving after one season are WAY too high.
I listened to the appearance of Mitch Lawrence on Barerrio from a few days ago and he said one theory that's out there is that even Ainge didn't think he was going to get George to sign a long term deal and so for them he was a rental and he may have not wanted to give up a lot for just one season of George. Honestly that makes some sense.
A couple other things I will mention.
He basically had the same reports about Teague as Jon K. Somewhat of a split throughout the league on Teague/swap. He basically thought Teague's defense was terrible and thought Thibs things he can coach him up.
They talked some about the Knicks and how fans had multiple parades now that Phil is gone but...who will they hire? Will the be any better? Could they be worse? Mitch said they need to hire a guy that has done this all before and Dan told him he knows just the guy for the job. He is available and already lives in NYC. David Kahn. lol I think he actually had Mitch intruiged before he said the name. :)
Mitch said that adding Gibson was a terrific move and he said he is a way better player than Patterson who he has heard some people (Wolves fans) are grumbling about the deals each guy got he said Taj is a way better player.
He said the Wolves were clearly one of the winners of the offseason so far. He said Boston was a winner but not a big winner. He said the Clippers might be a winner just because they won't be playing Chris paul 46 million a year when he is 38.
He mention JVG calling out Wiggins and Towns commitment to defense on his show and Dan said he basically said the same thing. Mitch said the reality is that Wiggins and Towns right now are young talented losers. They haven't won anything and haven't committed to defense and until they win and take the next step...that's what they are. It was harsh but it was interesting to hear that perspective from the outsider. He seemed to give Rubio a pass because he played defense.
Nothing really was earth shattering and there may have been a couple more interesting things there but yeah there was some kinda good stuff.
Good information, Monster. I didn't hear the interview so thanks for posting the summary. I have a lot of respect for Mitch. Believe me, I want out be wrong about Taj and Teague. But the most telling comment was the one about Towns and Wiggins. I agree with him completely. I've alway said and will continue to say that the fate of this franchise rests with the development and play of Wiggins and Towns. They need to step up their games defensively and Wiggins needs to step up his game in numerous other ways, including rebounding and ballhandling.
Mitch also mentioned Kyrie as a talented loser also.
I'll say this about Towns and Wiggins defense. I've listened to a number of NBA experts or whatever on various podcasts that say they really weren't surprised the Wolves weren't better on defense last year even with Thibs. They said they were just too young and Thibs concepts are pretty complex so they just didn't think the young guys would all catch on quick enough. That doesn't let those guys off the hook but it does make a lot of sense and it feels good a number of people said they saw that coming. Britt Robson has basically complete belief Towns will figure it out defensively (even while saying he was f$@#ing terrible on defense last year) and he thinks Wiggins is better on that end than some people give credit for. That says something to me because that guy makes a bigger deal out of defense than LST does. Lol Regardless those guys have to step up and prove themselves. It's gonna help having some vets who are good and know what the heck they are doing. It's probably going to make Dieng look better too.
60WinTim wrote:Q12543 wrote:Drew's scenario was very, very do-able, outside of Lowry perhaps. We really could have had Butler + George because Indiana would have easily taken Wiggins instead of what OKC offered them. Now I'm not suggesting we SHOULD have done that, but it would have been a bold move by Thibs and basically put us in the conversation of a top 3 team out West.
The "sacrificing the future" wagon would have grown by leaps and bounds...
lipoli390 wrote:monsterpile wrote:lipoli390 wrote:monsterpile wrote:lipoli390 wrote:Q12543 wrote:Drew's scenario was very, very do-able, outside of Lowry perhaps. We really could have had Butler + George because Indiana would have easily taken Wiggins instead of what OKC offered them. Now I'm not suggesting we SHOULD have done that, but it would have been a bold move by Thibs and basically put us in the conversation of a top 3 team out West.
Lowry wasn't a "perhaps." It was a nonstarter giving what he got from Toronto. It's not like players were giving us discounts to sign them - case in point Taj. I agree that Indiana would have dealt George for Wiggins, but there's no way I'd make that deal if I were Thibs. The odds of him leaving after one season are WAY too high.
I listened to the appearance of Mitch Lawrence on Barerrio from a few days ago and he said one theory that's out there is that even Ainge didn't think he was going to get George to sign a long term deal and so for them he was a rental and he may have not wanted to give up a lot for just one season of George. Honestly that makes some sense.
A couple other things I will mention.
He basically had the same reports about Teague as Jon K. Somewhat of a split throughout the league on Teague/swap. He basically thought Teague's defense was terrible and thought Thibs things he can coach him up.
They talked some about the Knicks and how fans had multiple parades now that Phil is gone but...who will they hire? Will the be any better? Could they be worse? Mitch said they need to hire a guy that has done this all before and Dan told him he knows just the guy for the job. He is available and already lives in NYC. David Kahn. lol I think he actually had Mitch intruiged before he said the name. :)
Mitch said that adding Gibson was a terrific move and he said he is a way better player than Patterson who he has heard some people (Wolves fans) are grumbling about the deals each guy got he said Taj is a way better player.
He said the Wolves were clearly one of the winners of the offseason so far. He said Boston was a winner but not a big winner. He said the Clippers might be a winner just because they won't be playing Chris paul 46 million a year when he is 38.
He mention JVG calling out Wiggins and Towns commitment to defense on his show and Dan said he basically said the same thing. Mitch said the reality is that Wiggins and Towns right now are young talented losers. They haven't won anything and haven't committed to defense and until they win and take the next step...that's what they are. It was harsh but it was interesting to hear that perspective from the outsider. He seemed to give Rubio a pass because he played defense.
Nothing really was earth shattering and there may have been a couple more interesting things there but yeah there was some kinda good stuff.
Good information, Monster. I didn't hear the interview so thanks for posting the summary. I have a lot of respect for Mitch. Believe me, I want out be wrong about Taj and Teague. But the most telling comment was the one about Towns and Wiggins. I agree with him completely. I've alway said and will continue to say that the fate of this franchise rests with the development and play of Wiggins and Towns. They need to step up their games defensively and Wiggins needs to step up his game in numerous other ways, including rebounding and ballhandling.
Mitch also mentioned Kyrie as a talented loser also.
I'll say this about Towns and Wiggins defense. I've listened to a number of NBA experts or whatever on various podcasts that say they really weren't surprised the Wolves weren't better on defense last year even with Thibs. They said they were just too young and Thibs concepts are pretty complex so they just didn't think the young guys would all catch on quick enough. That doesn't let those guys off the hook but it does make a lot of sense and it feels good a number of people said they saw that coming. Britt Robson has basically complete belief Towns will figure it out defensively (even while saying he was f$@#ing terrible on defense last year) and he thinks Wiggins is better on that end than some people give credit for. That says something to me because that guy makes a bigger deal out of defense than LST does. Lol Regardless those guys have to step up and prove themselves. It's gonna help having some vets who are good and know what the heck they are doing. It's probably going to make Dieng look better too.
Monster - Interesting point about the complexity of Thibs' defense and how that might at least partially explain the defensive struggles of our two young talents. It tracks a comment coach Carlisle made the other day in summer league. He mentioned that the most important thing to do with young players is to keep it simple. Those were his exact words. One of the things that makes Carlisle and other top coaches so great over long stretches of time with multiple teams is their adaptability. Carlisle, Pop and others adapt to the talents or their players and, as Carlisle was suggesting, they also adapt to the age of their players. I don't think Thibs is flexible enough to adapt to anything. Hence, he's bringing in two vets who player under him for years. Hopefully with time and help from the two new vets our young guys will master Thibs' complex defensive schemes.
Interestingly, we don't have many young guys left. It's just KAT at 21/22 Jones at 21/22, Wiggins at 22/23. That's it for what you can call "young guys." Gorgui is 27 and Butler will be 28 when the season starts. Teague and Belly are both 29. Taj is 32 and Crawford is 37.
