Woj-Wolves and Bulls talking Butler trade again

[Lipoli390]

The Bulls are ready to rebuild. That's what I heard from my friend who knows someone close to the Bulls owner and, apart from what I heard, it makes sense. The Bulls barely made the playoffs and didn't get very far. They don't have any burgeoning young talent that the franchise can rely on to take them further in the future. So they are clearly poised to launch a rebuild. That means they'll be looking to add assets to help establish a new foundation -- namely 1st round draft picks and young high-upside talent while also clearing cap space. Note that Butler is the only high-value asset the Bulls have as a means to start acquiring those foundational assets. That tells me the Bulls are highly motivated to trade him this summer to start the rebuild as soon as possible and take full advantage of this year's draft.

Importantly, what the Bulls can ultimately get for Butler depends on the market. Assuming reports are correct about the Celtics not having much if any interest in Butler and given Cleveland's absolute need for a 3rd team to make a Butler deal happen, it would appear that the market for Butler isn't particularly strong. The Wolves should act accordingly, which means the Wolves should drive a hard bargain and be willing to walk away if the deal's not a really good one for the Wolves. But until we have a better sense of Butler's trade/market value, we can't know what the Bulls would accept from us in return.

[Coolbreeze44]

It all depends who's available at 7. If Jackson or Tatum fall, 7+Dunn likely is good enough to get Jimmy.

NFW

If Dunn/Lavine was enough to get the deal done last year, Dunn/Tatum or Jackson is enough to get it done this year. Dunn's value is lower, but so is Zach's as he's coming off a major knee injury and is a restricted free agent this summer aka no money savings for trading Butler. Meanwhile a Tatum or Isaac are considered top 5 prospects in a strong draft and they would be on a full rookie deal. That's why either of them are more valuable than Zach at this point.

Okay first of all Jackson isn't falling to #7. I expect the Celts to take him at 3. And i still don't see how Tatum/Dunn is a strong enough package to get Butler. At a minimum i think we would have to give up Lavine and #7, and maybe even Wiggins in a different package. Well, Wig isn't going anywhere. And I'm not sure the Bulls even bite on Zach and #7 due to the injury.

[Lipoli390]

Cool - I agree that Jackson isn't falling to #7. Honestly, I don't see Tatum or Isaac falling to #7 either. What we have to give up for Butler really depends on how badly the Bulls want to begin their inevitable rebuilding process AND what offers they're getting from other teams. If we're competing with the Celtics or Sixers for Butler, then we'd definitely have to give up either Wiggins or Zach along with our #7 pick and possibly more. If we're just competing with the Cavs and they can't get the Celtics or Sixers to partner with them, then I'm not sure who else is out there with the sort of assets the Bulls would be looking for to start their rebuild. I doubt the Lakers are interested because they likely have their sights set on Paul George. The Suns? Possibly, but we haven't heard that they're interested in Butler and he doesn't appear to fit with what the Suns are building.

So if not the Celtics, where's the competition for Butler? Yes, the Bulls might have a minimum price that has to be met. But how stubborn can they be? Do they delay their rebuild and risk passing on the chance to get a lottery pick in this draft? Do they risk a Butler injury during the season? He stayed healthy last season, but he hasn't exactly been a model of durability through his career. So while you and I may see Butler's value as higher than a combination of Dunn and Tatum, the only value that counts is Butler's market value and that turns on the level of interest in Butler from other teams that have the sorts of assets conducive to the beginning of a rebuild process.

I find it hard to believe that the Celtics aren't interested in Butler. So I tend to believe as you do that we don't have a chance at Butler unless we give up Wiggins (or LaVine) along with our pick. But we'll see.

[60WinTim]

Another thing the Wolves have to offer the Bulls that many teams do not -- salary cap space. The Wolves can absorb the majority, if not all, of Butler's salary on draft day.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

It all depends who's available at 7. If Jackson or Tatum fall, 7+Dunn likely is good enough to get Jimmy.

NFW

If Dunn/Lavine was enough to get the deal done last year, Dunn/Tatum or Jackson is enough to get it done this year. Dunn's value is lower, but so is Zach's as he's coming off a major knee injury and is a restricted free agent this summer aka no money savings for trading Butler. Meanwhile a Tatum or Isaac are considered top 5 prospects in a strong draft and they would be on a full rookie deal. That's why either of them are more valuable than Zach at this point.

Okay first of all Jackson isn't falling to #7. I expect the Celts to take him at 3. And i still don't see how Tatum/Dunn is a strong enough package to get Butler. At a minimum i think we would have to give up Lavine and #7, and maybe even Wiggins in a different package. Well, Wig isn't going anywhere. And I'm not sure the Bulls even bite on Zach and #7 due to the injury.

That's the whole reason I said it depends on who drops to 7. IF Jackson or Tatum fall to 7 then I think they'd take Dunn and one of them for Butler. I don't know why they'd take Zach. He's coming off a major injury and someone like the Nets who have nothing are gonna throw a max deal at him next summer if he shows anything. That's a 1 year discount and then he's gonna be making more than Butler. That's not how you rebuild.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Another thing the Wolves have to offer the Bulls that many teams do not -- salary cap space. The Wolves can absorb the majority, if not all, of Butler's salary on draft day.

Seems like teams always figure this out though.....

[60WinTim]

Another thing the Wolves have to offer the Bulls that many teams do not -- salary cap space. The Wolves can absorb the majority, if not all, of Butler's salary on draft day.

Seems like teams always figure this out though.....

Entering free agency, yes. But only a handful of teams can offer it as part of a draft day deal.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Butler is the 4th best wing in the NBA after LeBron, Leonard, and Durant. And both Durant and LeBron play a fair amount of time at the 4 now, so you could argue he's the second best "pure" wing after Leonard. He would be the only player on our roster that is an elite two-way threat right now.

But....I kind of agree with Cool. It's hard for me to fathom #7 + (name your player besides Wiggins and KAT) getting it done. We always think we have all these great assets, but two Thibs won't touch (Wig and KAT); one is damaged goods (LaVine); and a third has declined in value since this time last year (Dunn).

Unless Thibs puts Wiggins on the table, I don't think we have an offer the Bulls will take.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Butler is the 4th best wing in the NBA after LeBron, Leonard, and Durant. And both Durant and LeBron play a fair amount of time at the 4 now, so you could argue he's the second best "pure" wing after Leonard. He would be the only player on our roster that is an elite two-way threat right now.

But....I kind of agree with Cool. It's hard for me to fathom #7 + (name your player besides Wiggins and KAT) getting it done. We always think we have all these great assets, but two Thibs won't touch (Wig and KAT); one is damaged goods (LaVine); and a third has declined in value since this time last year (Dunn).

Unless Thibs puts Wiggins on the table, I don't think we have an offer the Bulls will take.

Count me in this group.

Butler is very good. He has a good contract, relatively speaking. And he is under 30. He and KAT would give the Wolves two of the top 15 players in the league...

But at what price?

- #7. Sure.
- Dunn. #5 pick who looked woefully overmatched offensively and not a super young PG in a league littered with super young PGs.
- LaVine. Promising. Improvement. But also coming off a knee injury in an extension year. How many guys return right away at their previous level? Is that enough time to know where he is... and more importantly... where he can go?
- Rubio. Solid. But flawed. Mixed reports about whether he's a Thibs type of PG or not.
- Wiggins. A one-dimensional scorer. Facing a max extension. His closest comp... DeMar Derozan was completely exposed in the playoffs. But he's a gifted scorer with better three point shooting than DeRozan. Could he still be an All NBA player? Butler already is... would anybody give up Wiggins for Butler... no pick? Personally, I don't think Chicago bites...

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Butler is the 4th best wing in the NBA after LeBron, Leonard, and Durant. And both Durant and LeBron play a fair amount of time at the 4 now, so you could argue he's the second best "pure" wing after Leonard. He would be the only player on our roster that is an elite two-way threat right now.

But....I kind of agree with Cool. It's hard for me to fathom #7 + (name your player besides Wiggins and KAT) getting it done. We always think we have all these great assets, but two Thibs won't touch (Wig and KAT); one is damaged goods (LaVine); and a third has declined in value since this time last year (Dunn).

Unless Thibs puts Wiggins on the table, I don't think we have an offer the Bulls will take.

I tend to agree with this take. I recall a year ago listening to a conversation on Barreiro with the Bulls beat writer (don't recall his name, but he was very knowledgeable), and the writer was very firm about how little the Bulls' brain trust valued Zach Lavine. And with Zach coming off on injury, I suspect they value him even less. The writer said last year it would take the third pick and Wig to get Butler, so I have to believe Wig plus #7 is the least we would have to offer to do this deal. I love Butler, but I wouldn't do that deal.