lipoli390 wrote:Getting back to the thread title. Gilgeous-Alexander had 12 points hitting 50% of his field goals and nailing 4 of 4 from the line. He also had 5 rebounds, 4 assists and 1 steal with a +21 tonight. Gallo had 20 points 9 rebounds and 4 assists. I suspect we could have dealt Butler for Gallo and G-Alexander. Might still be able to make that deal. I'd do that deal if we also received a future unprotected 1st. I'd still prefer T. Harris and G-Alexander but we've all read the reports that the Lakers won't give him up T. Harris for Butler. G-Alexander is the sort of young talent we should be targeting as part of any deal for Butler. Getting both T. Harris and G-Alexander would be a great deal for the Wolves. We may never know if that's a possibility since I don't think Thibodeau will do any realistic deal for Butler.
I heard that the Clippers are extremely high on Gilgeous-Alexander... Remember, they traded up for him in the draft... giving up a couple of picks for him.
I remember them trading up to get him. That could mean that both G-Alexander and T. Harris are not gettable in a Butler deal. I wouldn't be surprised. It's simply the reality of Butler's market value under the circumstances.
And honestly, Butler wasn't exactly a hot commodity when the Wolves traded for him. I recall the Bulls were pushing the Celtics to deal for Butler last summer, but the Celtics had no interest. We ended up giving up (1) one very promising young talent (LaVine) who was recovering from ACL surgery and had not yet shown himself to be an allstar caliber player, (2) one PG lottery pick (Dunn) coming off a very disappointing rookie season, and (3) our 7th pick in the draft in exchange for the 15th. I still think that was a significant package for Butler, but it wasn't a super-impressive package. Here's the clincher. At the time that there were no reports that Butler had even remotely suggested he wanted to leave the Bulls or that there was any friction between Butler and Bulls management. Moreover, Butler still had 2 seasons left before his opt out opportunity.
I'm a bit perplexed that some still believe we can get a better return for Butler than the reports we're read about. I think it's more a matter of some clinging to the belief that somehow Butler will lead the Wolves to a great record this season and then re-sign next summer. I have no problem with fans embracing that scenario in rejecting the reality of Butler's deflated market value. However, that scenario strikes me as far to improbable to merit serious consideration by Wolves management. And it's also worth considering whether it would even make sense to re-sign Butler next summer to a 4 or 5-year deal starting at $33 million per year given his age and injury history.
We're mostly on the same page with the Butler stuff. Maybe we just need to become Butler Bobos like some in the national media.
For example, I heard Rachel Nichols on the Zach Lowe podcast. Wow. What a Butler apologist. I get that the Wolves screwed this up badly. Maybe more/less than we even know. Probably egregiously. But she was "all-in" on making every excuse for him on seemingly every single issue.
Even when Lowe said "c'mon, let's be honest here. It's about money. And giving up all the money for Butler would have gutted the team." ... Nichols gave excuses. She also said the interview wasn't orchestrated by Butler ahead of time.
Apparently, having 1st dibs on a big news story will render all journalistic credibility moot. Pretty disappointed in Nichols.
lipoli390 wrote:Getting back to the thread title. Gilgeous-Alexander had 12 points hitting 50% of his field goals and nailing 4 of 4 from the line. He also had 5 rebounds, 4 assists and 1 steal with a +21 tonight. Gallo had 20 points 9 rebounds and 4 assists. I suspect we could have dealt Butler for Gallo and G-Alexander. Might still be able to make that deal. I'd do that deal if we also received a future unprotected 1st. I'd still prefer T. Harris and G-Alexander but we've all read the reports that the Lakers won't give him up T. Harris for Butler. G-Alexander is the sort of young talent we should be targeting as part of any deal for Butler. Getting both T. Harris and G-Alexander would be a great deal for the Wolves. We may never know if that's a possibility since I don't think Thibodeau will do any realistic deal for Butler.
I heard that the Clippers are extremely high on Gilgeous-Alexander... Remember, they traded up for him in the draft... giving up a couple of picks for him.
I remember them trading up to get him. That could mean that both G-Alexander and T. Harris are not gettable in a Butler deal. I wouldn't be surprised. It's simply the reality of Butler's market value under the circumstances.
And honestly, Butler wasn't exactly a hot commodity when the Wolves traded for him. I recall the Bulls were pushing the Celtics to deal for Butler last summer, but the Celtics had no interest. We ended up giving up (1) one very promising young talent (LaVine) who was recovering from ACL surgery and had not yet shown himself to be an allstar caliber player, (2) one PG lottery pick (Dunn) coming off a very disappointing rookie season, and (3) our 7th pick in the draft in exchange for the 15th. I still think that was a significant package for Butler, but it wasn't a super-impressive package. Here's the clincher. At the time that there were no reports that Butler had even remotely suggested he wanted to leave the Bulls or that there was any friction between Butler and Bulls management. Moreover, Butler still had 2 seasons left before his opt out opportunity.
I'm a bit perplexed that some still believe we can get a better return for Butler than the reports we're read about. I think it's more a matter of some clinging to the belief that somehow Butler will lead the Wolves to a great record this season and then re-sign next summer. I have no problem with fans embracing that scenario in rejecting the reality of Butler's deflated market value. However, that scenario strikes me as far to improbable to merit serious consideration by Wolves management. And it's also worth considering whether it would even make sense to re-sign Butler next summer to a 4 or 5-year deal starting at $33 million per year given his age and injury history.
We're mostly on the same page with the Butler stuff. Maybe we just need to become Butler Bobos like some in the national media.
For example, I heard Rachel Nichols on the Zach Lowe podcast. Wow. What a Butler apologist. I get that the Wolves screwed this up badly. Maybe more/less than we even know. Probably egregiously. But she was "all-in" on making every excuse for him on seemingly every single issue.
Even when Lowe said "c'mon, let's be honest here. It's about money. And giving up all the money for Butler would have gutted the team." ... Nichols gave excuses. She also said the interview wasn't orchestrated by Butler ahead of time.
Apparently, having 1st dibs on a big news story will render all journalistic credibility moot. Pretty disappointed in Nichols.
Personally I heard Nichols responding from a different place and so I took it differently than you and another poster that said similar things. I see where you are coming from I'm just saying I perceived it differently. I thought some of what she said was valid.
I think what angle you are coming from and what position you are in (like what your job is) obviously effects the way you see a situation. It may be completely tainted or it could just be more of a human element. I'm not discounting the way you perceived things at all just adding what I perceived and thought after hearing the podcast. It was an interesting back and forth especially after listening to JVG with Lowe a few days before. :)
Josh Richardson had 21 point, 8 boards and a block tonight against the Knicks. He shot 8-14 from the field and 5-6 from behind the arc. His teammate, Whiteside, had 22 points, 14 rebounds and 3 blocks.
lipoli390 wrote:Josh Richardson had 21 point, 8 boards and a block tonight against the Knicks. He shot 8-14 from the field and 5-6 from behind the arc. His teammate, Whiteside, had 22 points, 14 rebounds and 3 blocks.
I watched this game -- mainly to see the Heat's superstars-in-making, and because I like Kevin Knox and wanted to see him play. Unfortunately, his injury made that a no-go.
Quite the performance from Josh Richardson. He seemed completely unaffected by the truly formidable defensive trio that guarded him throughout most of the game -- Trey Burke, Tim Hardaway Jr. and rookie Allonzo Trier. J-Rich's ability to dominate such fierce defenders was thoroughly put on display. This kid is going to be a league-changer. I'm sold.
lipoli390 wrote:Josh Richardson had 21 point, 8 boards and a block tonight against the Knicks. He shot 8-14 from the field and 5-6 from behind the arc. His teammate, Whiteside, had 22 points, 14 rebounds and 3 blocks.
I watched this game -- mainly to see the Heat's superstars-in-making, and because I like Kevin Knox and wanted to see him play. Unfortunately, his injury made that a no-go.
Quite the performance from Josh Richardson. He seemed completely unaffected by the truly formidable defensive trio that guarded him throughout most of the game -- Trey Burke, Tim Hardaway Jr. and rookie Allonzo Trier. J-Rich's ability to dominate such fierce defenders was thoroughly put on display. This kid is going to be a league-changer. I'm sold.
Well, you still gotta make the shots and going 5-6 from 3 is impressive regardless of who is guarding you.
I'm not sure who you think we can expect to get in exchange for Butler or in exchange for whatever cap space is freed up after he walks and we don't trade him. But we sure as shit aren't getting a league-changer. I think your bar is too high.
I'll add that Richardson is shooting over 39% from behind the arc so far this season on a relatively heavy volume of 8.3 shots 3s per game. He's also pulling down over 5 boards per game. Again, as Q points out, we're not going to get an allstar in return for Butler.
lipoli390 wrote:Josh Richardson had 21 point, 8 boards and a block tonight against the Knicks. He shot 8-14 from the field and 5-6 from behind the arc. His teammate, Whiteside, had 22 points, 14 rebounds and 3 blocks.
I watched this game -- mainly to see the Heat's superstars-in-making, and because I like Kevin Knox and wanted to see him play. Unfortunately, his injury made that a no-go.
Quite the performance from Josh Richardson. He seemed completely unaffected by the truly formidable defensive trio that guarded him throughout most of the game -- Trey Burke, Tim Hardaway Jr. and rookie Allonzo Trier. J-Rich's ability to dominate such fierce defenders was thoroughly put on display. This kid is going to be a league-changer. I'm sold.
Well, you still gotta make the shots and going 5-6 from 3 is impressive regardless of who is guarding you.
I'm not sure who you think we can expect to get in exchange for Butler or in exchange for whatever cap space is freed up after he walks and we don't trade him. But we sure as shit aren't getting a league-changer. I think your bar is too high.
Yeah. I caught the sarcasm from Cam... obviously.
But I don't recall anybody even assuming Richardson would be a league-changing type of player. He has the potential to be a good to even very good two-way wing... largely because of the continued improvement he's shown.
[Note: A big caveat with Richardson... the number of free throws remains a problem. The guy is shooting about 17 times per game, but only shooting 2.8 attempts from the line. That's a lot closer to prime Avery Bradley than it is Jimmy Butler.]
Dieng is averaging over 9pts and 5 rebs a game in less than 16 mins. His per 36 numbers are 21-10. Thibs and Layden are gonna be treating him as an asset in a deal. :)
crazy-canuck wrote:Sit back and watch the wiz continue to struggle.
Maybe they get desperate enough to give up porter for butler.
I looked at the box score and 3 Wizards bench players played more minutes than porter who played 24 and wasn't in foul trouble. Oubre Jr played 30 mins.
