Trade Target Performance Tracker

[KG4Ever]

I don't like Waiters at all but if we can't get a player like Porter or Covington for Butler, I'd take Richardson in pretty much any deal. What would the Wolves do with the empty cap space in the event that Butler walks--they'll never be able to sign a free agent as good as Richardson. Thibs (and Glen too) can't be trusted to spend money wisely and Thibs would be happy to massively overpay for another 30ish veteran.

[kekgeek]

28 / 4 / 5 for Richardson tonight. He hit 5 three pointers.

He's looking like THE guy through 2 games for Miami. A big part of it has been his ability to get to the line. He only got there less than 2 times per game last season. He got there 8 times tonight.

THIS is what a young player is supposed to do... improve. Every year. He's on year 4. And it looks like he's still on an upward trajectory. Caris Lavert is expected to be THE guy in Brooklyn this season.

And it's not stat hunting to find progression like we have to do with so many Wolves players.

I'd have been happy with either one in a package for a disgruntled Butler. Neither guy may pan out to be a star... or even much better than they are now. But they are showing growth. And a team like the Wolves has to finally start finding those diamonds in the rough to become credible.

Given the way Richardson is performing, I doubt Riley will offer him again. I've been saying it repeatedly and I'll say it one more time. The delay dealing Butler will end up on the list of all time Wolves franchise blunders. And that's quite an achievement. Thibodeau has never wanted to part with Butler and, to the extent he'd be willing to deal him, he has vastly over-estimated Butler's market value. Again, it's market value, not how good you think a player is relative to other players. Meanwhile, Glen Taylor has been lost in la la land. What a poor excuse for an NBA organization.

It's 2 games. I mean Wiggins averaged 23.5 and 5 after the 1st 2 games last year.

Don't get me wrong I like Richardson. But it's not worth taking on a massive negative asset in waiters. We don't need arguably 3 unmovable contracts in gorgui, waiters and possibly Wiggins. Those 3 alone should be 56 million of our cap space and all three would be overpaid.

Also what happens if we trade butler and he gets hurt. The Heat won't be good and that lottery protected 1st might turn into a 2nd round pick because the Heat can't carry over their pick.

Once again I like Richardson but he is not worth 3 years of cap hell and possibly not even a 1st out of it.

Sorry, but that's the best offer the Wolves have received for Butler. Like it or not, that's the market price for him. Failing to take that deal probably means ending up with less in return at a later date or simply watching Butler move on next summer with nothing in return. I don't like the idea of getting Waiters, but you just make the deal and figure out the salary issues next summer. The key will be getting Teague off the books, which could happen next summer and would definitely happen the following summer. I'll bet we could use the Miami pick to entice another team to take Gorgui in exchange for an expiring contract. I wouldn't worry about the lottery protection on the pick. No doubt Butler might get hurt, but Miami would still make the playoffs in the East. And note that Buter could get hurt while playing for us, thereby tanking his trade value even further.

I know we disagree on this. What is perfectly fine. I just think Richardson is not worth 3 years of cap hell. Like we are at the lux tax number already if Teague opts in. That is not even counting resigning tyus, our rookies and any free agent we could possibly sign.

That would be the worst thing thibs could do to this organization is to leave the wolves with no cap space and the wolves going to be forced to trade future assets to get out of the lux tax.

I personally would rather have butler walk then the rumored deal. Because it allows the next front office options on where to take this team. Instead of being stuck for 3 years and having to give up even more assets then butler to get out of the hell while thibs left us in

[Monster]

28 / 4 / 5 for Richardson tonight. He hit 5 three pointers.

He's looking like THE guy through 2 games for Miami. A big part of it has been his ability to get to the line. He only got there less than 2 times per game last season. He got there 8 times tonight.

THIS is what a young player is supposed to do... improve. Every year. He's on year 4. And it looks like he's still on an upward trajectory. Caris Lavert is expected to be THE guy in Brooklyn this season.

And it's not stat hunting to find progression like we have to do with so many Wolves players.

I'd have been happy with either one in a package for a disgruntled Butler. Neither guy may pan out to be a star... or even much better than they are now. But they are showing growth. And a team like the Wolves has to finally start finding those diamonds in the rough to become credible.

Given the way Richardson is performing, I doubt Riley will offer him again. I've been saying it repeatedly and I'll say it one more time. The delay dealing Butler will end up on the list of all time Wolves franchise blunders. And that's quite an achievement. Thibodeau has never wanted to part with Butler and, to the extent he'd be willing to deal him, he has vastly over-estimated Butler's market value. Again, it's market value, not how good you think a player is relative to other players. Meanwhile, Glen Taylor has been lost in la la land. What a poor excuse for an NBA organization.

It's 2 games. I mean Wiggins averaged 23.5 and 5 after the 1st 2 games last year.

Don't get me wrong I like Richardson. But it's not worth taking on a massive negative asset in waiters. We don't need arguably 3 unmovable contracts in gorgui, waiters and possibly Wiggins. Those 3 alone should be 56 million of our cap space and all three would be overpaid.

Also what happens if we trade butler and he gets hurt. The Heat won't be good and that lottery protected 1st might turn into a 2nd round pick because the Heat can't carry over their pick.

Once again I like Richardson but he is not worth 3 years of cap hell and possibly not even a 1st out of it.

Sorry, but that's the best offer the Wolves have received for Butler. Like it or not, that's the market price for him. Failing to take that deal probably means ending up with less in return at a later date or simply watching Butler move on next summer with nothing in return. I don't like the idea of getting Waiters, but you just make the deal and figure out the salary issues next summer. The key will be getting Teague off the books, which could happen next summer and would definitely happen the following summer. I'll bet we could use the Miami pick to entice another team to take Gorgui in exchange for an expiring contract. I wouldn't worry about the lottery protection on the pick. No doubt Butler might get hurt, but Miami would still make the playoffs in the East. And note that Buter could get hurt while playing for us, thereby tanking his trade value even further.

Well if the heat get Butler and he gets hurt and they suck (doubt it they are too good to just suck) but we do have their 2nd rounder so if they really suck it adds some value there. I'd guess they Make the playoffs in the East or have the puck protected for like top 12 or something like that so they would have to suck pretty bad for us not to get it.

[kekgeek]

I don't like Waiters at all but if we can't get a player like Porter or Covington for Butler, I'd take Richardson in pretty much any deal. What would the Wolves do with the empty cap space in the event that Butler walks--they'll never be able to sign a free agent as good as Richardson. Thibs (and Glen too) can't be trusted to spend money wisely and Thibs would be happy to massively overpay for another 30ish veteran.

I would be shocked if thibs is here next offseason. Its not about who we could sign it is about we don't want to be stuck in a corner. We want to give the next guys options on what to do.

What is a team of

PG: Teague/Tyus
SG: Richardson/okogie/ waiters
SF: Wiggins
Pf: KBD
C: Towns/ Gorgui/Patton

What is that team. To me it's a non playoff team. And we are in the lux tax with those guys and no way to get out for 3 years without giving up draft picks.

Once again i'm cool with adding Richardson but not with a terrible contract coming with him.

[Lipoli390]

I don't like Waiters at all but if we can't get a player like Porter or Covington for Butler, I'd take Richardson in pretty much any deal. What would the Wolves do with the empty cap space in the event that Butler walks--they'll never be able to sign a free agent as good as Richardson. Thibs (and Glen too) can't be trusted to spend money wisely and Thibs would be happy to massively overpay for another 30ish veteran.

I would be shocked if thibs is here next offseason. Its not about who we could sign it is about we don't want to be stuck in a corner. We want to give the next guys options on what to do.

What is a team of

PG: Teague/Tyus
SG: Richardson/okogie/ waiters
SF: Wiggins
Pf: KBD
C: Towns/ Gorgui/Patton

What is that team. To me it's a non playoff team. And we are in the lux tax with those guys and no way to get out for 3 years without giving up draft picks.

Once again i'm cool with adding Richardson but not with a terrible contract coming with him.

I'm not cool with giving up LaVine, Dunn and the 7th pick in the draft for a soft big with brittle feet and a two-year rental who helped us barely secure an 8th seed in one season, followed by the debocle we're about to witness with him this season. Getting bona fide young talent like Richardson in exchange for Butler outweighs the downside of taking on a contract like Waiter's. That my view. There are limited opportunities for a franchise like the Wolves to get top-grade talent. Generally, the draft is usually the only opportunity. Butler offers a rare additional opportunity. The chance to get someone with J. Richardson's talent is an opportunity this franchise can't afford to pass up. If Waiters comes along with it, you do your best to encourage Teague to take a long-term deal elsewhere and clear his salary off the books. Or use the Miami pick we were purportedly going to get as inducement to other teams to take Gorgui.

[crazy-canuck [enjin:18955461]]

Maybe keep an eye on the lakers.

Bron wont want to miss the playoffs - EVER -, so maybe they get desperate and try to get Butler for this season rather than to compete with other teams for him in the off season.

[Monster]

Maybe keep an eye on the lakers.

Bron wont want to miss the playoffs - EVER -, so maybe they get desperate and try to get Butler for this season rather than to compete with other teams for him in the off season.

Im not sure what the Lakers will do but I was just thinking tonight about getting Josh hart back in a deal.

[Lipoli390]

Maybe keep an eye on the lakers.

Bron wont want to miss the playoffs - EVER -, so maybe they get desperate and try to get Butler for this season rather than to compete with other teams for him in the off season.

Interesting thought, CC. My sense is that the Lakers will improve as the season goes on and be in the thick of the playoff race by January/February. They have amassed a lot of young talent in Ingram, Ball, Hart and Kuzma. Ingram is a more mature young talent who looks like he's ready to take that next step. Combining this young talent with some very sold vets like Rondo and the League's best player, LeBron, I don't see the Lakers in a situation where they'd have to make a major move like acquiring Butler in February as a desperate hale Mary attempt to make the playoffs. Moreover, note that Butler did not list the Lakers among the teams he wants to play for and the Lakers have shown absolutely no interest in acquiring him.

Your scenario isn't crazy (pun intended). It's possible the Lakers might be desperate enough in a few months to give us more value for Butler than any team has offered thus far. But that scenario seems highly unlikely.

Your post is good food for thought, but it highlights the folly of delaying a Butler deal. Delay forces the Wolves to rely on unpredictable, generally unlikely scenarios. It's a gamble. Good organizations don't gamble. They develop a plan, adjust the plan to the circumstances and then make realistic, rationale decisions to implement the plan. The market has already set Butler's price. The odds of his value going up are no greater than the odds of them going down. In fact, given Butler's injury history and the fact he'll be a free agent next summer, I'd argue that there's a greater chance his value will decline.

We are watching gross mismanagement by Thibodeau and Layden under the watchful eye of a clueless owner. So we're left, as usual, not with a smart plan, but the hope that Lady Luck will save us. As we all know, she rarely saves the day - especially when it comes to the Wolves.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

I'm sensing that the desire to unload Butler is causing some people to overvalue players we might get back in return. Josh Richardson is a prime example. Someone coming in cold to this board might think of JRich as the second coming of LeBron after his first two games based on the desire here to exchange Butler for him. In reality, he shot 38% in those 2 games and dribbled the ball off his foot out of bounds in the final seconds of the Orlando game to cost them the win. If Wig shot 38% in his first two games and turned the ball over with a chance to win the game, we'd be running him out of town!

[Duke13]

I'm sensing that the desire to unload Butler is causing some people to overvalue players we might get back in return. Josh Richardson is a prime example. Someone coming in cold to this board might think of JRich as the second coming of LeBron after his first two games based on the desire here to exchange Butler for him. In reality, he shot 38% in those 2 games and dribbled the ball off his foot out of bounds in the final seconds of the Orlando game to cost them the win. If Wig shot 38% in his first two games and turned the ball over with a chance to win the game, we'd be running him out of town!

Or we could just go by your assessment, compare both Porter and Richardson's stats against each other, and because Porter has averaged 2 more rebounds a game during their 4 year careers, then conclude Porter is the superior player. SMH.