Deserved humility

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Monster and cool, I don't know if I agree that too much is being made of last night. I get that it's just one night and we were missing Rob and so on. But the gutless way that we lost is meaningful to me. I agree with Cool that the return game will be even more meaningful though, and we better be ready AF for that one. The Embiid trolling and Butler's continuing assholeness has to bring out the anger in any normal athlete, and it's not going to dissipate before March. As ugly as last night was, I think we will return the favor in a pretty dramatic way in March. If we don't, then this team is more gutless than I thought.


SP-I have a different take than you about the relative post-game behavior. Did KAT and Wig slink off because they were intimidated, or did they just not want to be on the court with a dildo like Butler? I tend to think it might be more the latter, and I'm not sure I blame him. I actually have a bigger problem with Tolliver, Deng and Dieng interacting pleasantly with Butler post-game. I want them to feel the anger that I'm feeling, and it's clear that they just don't. More evidence that fans often care more than the players do...sad.

Anyway, I'm hoping practice wasn't fun today...I'll be pissed if I hear there was any music. And we better bounce back with a 15 point win over the Spurs. I'll be there (as I will for the next Philly game), and I need something to take the sting out of last night.

[Coolbreeze44]

It was a pathetic performance and we have no excuses. But it was one game. Let's see what happens March 30th. Of course Jimmy will probably be hurt by that time and will miss the game. I don't like to many conclusions being drawn from one game where we were missing key personnel and our coach is coaching his 4th game.

This wasn't one game though. That's my point. Neither Kat nor Wiggins has EVER proven to be a winner. Yes, they show up every now and again with spectacular performances (KAT more than Wigs), but so what? What does it translate to over the course of a season? I'll tell ya. Losing. It doesn't get any more clearer than that, just look at the record after Butler went down last year and Wig/kat were supposed to step up. Barely made the playoffs, squeaked in.

I get you hate Butler, but I'm not even necessarily talking about Butler vs. Kat/Wigs. I don't care about the rematch or if Butler sits. That just proves Butlers point in the first place. Even if he did sit MArch 30th, how does that stop Embiid from making kat his bitch? Or Wiggins from being ineffective and looking like a deer in the headlights? Butler wanted to go to a team that could win. With or without him. He got that.

Conclusions from one game this is not. I still thinks it starts at the top with the most incompetent owner in all of sports, but that was one of the worst games Ive seen as a Wolves fan. Key personnnel? WIGGINS AND KAT ARE OUR KEY PERSONEEL AND THEY LOST BY 42 POINTS.[/quote}


Take a valium and relax a little bit. Wig plays some of his best games when the lights are the brightest or the challenge is the greatest. He showed up in the playoffs last year, Butler did not. KAT doesn't have the bulk to match up with Embiid. What's he supposed to do about that?

And who cares if Butler got what he wanted? I don't see any rings on this fingers yet, and I won't hold my breath.

[TAFKASP]

Disappointing no doubt. I was furious watching the lack of intensity we had.

If after all the drama, and getting called out, and embarrassed by Butler you play with zero intensity, I question your manhood. You have to be pretty damn pathetic to not be chomping at the bit to get revenge. I've never had a lower opinion of the two max players than I do right now.

[Monster]

Monster and cool, I don't know if I agree that too much is being made of last night. I get that it's just one night and we were missing Rob and so on. But the gutless way that we lost is meaningful to me. I agree with Cool that the return game will be even more meaningful though, and we better be ready AF for that one. The Embiid trolling and Butler's continuing assholeness has to bring out the anger in any normal athlete, and it's not going to dissipate before March. As ugly as last night was, I think we will return the favor in a pretty dramatic way in March. If we don't, then this team is more gutless than I thought.


SP-I have a different take than you about the relative post-game behavior. Did KAT and Wig slink off because they were intimidated, or did they just not want to be on the court with a dildo like Butler? I tend to think it might be more the latter, and I'm not sure I blame him. I actually have a bigger problem with Tolliver, Deng and Dieng interacting pleasantly with Butler post-game. I want them to feel the anger that I'm feeling, and it's clear that they just don't. More evidence that fans often care more than the players do...sad.

Anyway, I'm hoping practice wasn't fun today...I'll be pissed if I hear there was any music. And we better bounce back with a 15 point win over the Spurs. I'll be there (as I will for the next Philly game), and I need something to take the sting out of last night.

LST what our post says to me is you want to players tonreact the way you would react. I think that's unfair. Not everyone reacts the same way or is motivated the same way. Can you tell me a time where Tolliver has played a game and he doesn't look like he cared? Come on man!!! :)

This is sort of a side note by the reality is that it's VERY likely players care a whole ton more than we tend to assume myself included. Chris Kluwe addresses this in his book. He said even the guys that could be bought in more work pretty hard to get to the pro level. If anything he says they probably care too much. He says everyone is pretty competitive at that level. He says players replay bad plays in their head and some of them are ones fans don't even know happened. If you want to make the arguement that certain players should care more sure but the idea they don't care as much as you...probably isn't reality. I don't think anyone here even as die hard as we obviously are (why? Lol) actually live and die with this team. We are still fanatics but I think everyone here has some sort of decent separation between being a fan and their life. That's the sense I get anyway.

[TAFKASP]

SP-I have a different take than you about the relative post-game behavior. Did KAT and Wig slink off because they were intimidated, or did they just not want to be on the court with a dildo like Butler? I tend to think it might be more the latter, and I'm not sure I blame him. I actually have a bigger problem with Tolliver, Deng and Dieng interacting pleasantly with Butler post-game. I want them to feel the anger that I'm feeling, and it's clear that they just don't. More evidence that fans often care more than the players do...sad.

If the bolded is the case how did they show zero desire, zero grit, zero anger during the game? If they think the guy is a dick, and he is, and surely they feel that way, how does a man roll over like that? I bet they'd have loved to go out and rub a victory in Butler's face had they won, but they got whooped, turned tail and ran.

If you cannot get up for a revenge game like last night how in the hell can they be counted on to get up for a huge playoff game?

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Yeah, I get the anger about last night. Truly pathetic and heartless showing, especially by the two guys who have been most humiliated by Butler. I already know Wiggins isn't a very serious competitor, but the more talented of the two seems to curl up in the fetal position at the wrong time too.

Still.....we are 17-14 this season without Butler, so KAT and Wiggins (and others) CAN play winning basketball without him. Granted, it's not much over .500, but it's not the 30 or fewer wins we saw from them in the seasons prior to Butler.

[mrhockey89]

From a single game standpoint, I agree with those saying it's just 1 game, and most teams have at least 1 game like this that they just throw away the tape on. Can't blame this one on coaching. Everything just spiraled.

With that said, it is a bit disconcerting that this team, in the face of what should be playoff type intensities (let's face it, this wasn't 'just another game' to a lot of those guys), the team folded. Towns played a terrible game, as did Wiggins. Wiggins reverted back to his old ways, Towns continues to play small vs Embiid, and the rest of the team seemed to sit around. I find it especially insulting that Teague called his own team soft when Teague isn't one that brings the toughness night to night.

I think Towns tends to struggle with strong, aggressive forwards, but I think Towns will improve rapidly against Embiid after he gets a couple more starts against him and realizes that he can play with him. Right now I'm not convinced he believes it, but he should, and he will.

At the very least, this game is a reminder that this team is still very much a work in progress...oh, and we miss our defensive all-pro bad.

[ItsJustSoSab]

It was a pathetic performance and we have no excuses. But it was one game. Let's see what happens March 30th. Of course Jimmy will probably be hurt by that time and will miss the game. I don't like to many conclusions being drawn from one game where we were missing key personnel and our coach is coaching his 4th game.

This wasn't one game though. That's my point. Neither Kat nor Wiggins has EVER proven to be a winner. Yes, they show up every now and again with spectacular performances (KAT more than Wigs), but so what? What does it translate to over the course of a season? I'll tell ya. Losing. It doesn't get any more clearer than that, just look at the record after Butler went down last year and Wig/kat were supposed to step up. Barely made the playoffs, squeaked in.

I get you hate Butler, but I'm not even necessarily talking about Butler vs. Kat/Wigs. I don't care about the rematch or if Butler sits. That just proves Butlers point in the first place. Even if he did sit MArch 30th, how does that stop Embiid from making kat his bitch? Or Wiggins from being ineffective and looking like a deer in the headlights? Butler wanted to go to a team that could win. With or without him. He got that.

Conclusions from one game this is not. I still thinks it starts at the top with the most incompetent owner in all of sports, but that was one of the worst games Ive seen as a Wolves fan. Key personnnel? WIGGINS AND KAT ARE OUR KEY PERSONEEL AND THEY LOST BY 42 POINTS.[/quote}


Take a valium and relax a little bit. Wig plays some of his best games when the lights are the brightest or the challenge is the greatest. He showed up in the playoffs last year, Butler did not. KAT doesn't have the bulk to match up with Embiid. What's he supposed to do about that?

And who cares if Butler got what he wanted? I don't see any rings on this fingers yet, and I won't hold my breath.

I'm calm. Isn't that what happens when you move into the acceptance stage of grief?

Wig plays some of his best games when the lights are the brightest or the challenge is the greatest.

You offered me valium, I offer you the advice of going to a shrink. Perhaps you and Wiggins can go together, 2 for 1 deal. This has got to be the most ridiculous statement I've ever seen from you, going back to the ESPN board days. The lights were the brightest they've been last night all season and Wiggins was at his...best? Is that his best? He did good in last year's playoffs. So? How long are you gonna bring that up? It means nothing. He's being payed max money, he doesn't get to pick and choose when those "lights are the brightest". When you coach your middle schoolers, do you tell them "hey kids this is just a normal game in the season so if you give zero effort that's a-ok with me".

Butler did not

Again I say. Who cares? Butler this, Butler that, you sound like a scorned lover. Butler aint the issue anymore. He was a diva asshole but he got his wish and it's working for him. Just cause he's a diva asshole doesn't mean what he said about Wiggins and Kat is wrong.


KAT doesn't have the bulk to match up with Embiid. What's he supposed to do about that?

This can't be your excuse for KAT. Really? That's all ya got? KAT couldnt hustle for some rebounds because Embiid is bulkier than him? KAT cant knock down jumpshots, or run the floor, or try to draw contact? Can't switch to a passer who looks to get his teammates involved if he really feels like he cant go toe to toe with Embiid. Max money, no excuses.

And who cares if Butler got what he wanted? I don't see any rings on this fingers yet, and I won't hold my breath.

I care. And you do as well. You can lie about it, but you care. If the Wolves suck, you as a fan, care. That's why you're here. I want Butler to bring drama to the 76ers, I want that shit to implode and for him to play terribly. I want us to make strides and at least win a round in the playoffs after last year. So yeah I care, and with as much as you talk about Butler and the Wolves, you care too.

[Coolbreeze44]

It was a pathetic performance and we have no excuses. But it was one game. Let's see what happens March 30th. Of course Jimmy will probably be hurt by that time and will miss the game. I don't like to many conclusions being drawn from one game where we were missing key personnel and our coach is coaching his 4th game.

This wasn't one game though. That's my point. Neither Kat nor Wiggins has EVER proven to be a winner. Yes, they show up every now and again with spectacular performances (KAT more than Wigs), but so what? What does it translate to over the course of a season? I'll tell ya. Losing. It doesn't get any more clearer than that, just look at the record after Butler went down last year and Wig/kat were supposed to step up. Barely made the playoffs, squeaked in.

I get you hate Butler, but I'm not even necessarily talking about Butler vs. Kat/Wigs. I don't care about the rematch or if Butler sits. That just proves Butlers point in the first place. Even if he did sit MArch 30th, how does that stop Embiid from making kat his bitch? Or Wiggins from being ineffective and looking like a deer in the headlights? Butler wanted to go to a team that could win. With or without him. He got that.

Conclusions from one game this is not. I still thinks it starts at the top with the most incompetent owner in all of sports, but that was one of the worst games Ive seen as a Wolves fan. Key personnnel? WIGGINS AND KAT ARE OUR KEY PERSONEEL AND THEY LOST BY 42 POINTS.[/quote}


Take a valium and relax a little bit. Wig plays some of his best games when the lights are the brightest or the challenge is the greatest. He showed up in the playoffs last year, Butler did not. KAT doesn't have the bulk to match up with Embiid. What's he supposed to do about that?

And who cares if Butler got what he wanted? I don't see any rings on this fingers yet, and I won't hold my breath.

I'm calm. Isn't that what happens when you move into the acceptance stage of grief?

Wig plays some of his best games when the lights are the brightest or the challenge is the greatest.

You offered me valium, I offer you the advice of going to a shrink. Perhaps you and Wiggins can go together, 2 for 1 deal. This has got to be the most ridiculous statement I've ever seen from you, going back to the ESPN board days. The lights were the brightest they've been last night all season and Wiggins was at his...best? Is that his best? He did good in last year's playoffs. So? How long are you gonna bring that up? It means nothing. He's being payed max money, he doesn't get to pick and choose when those "lights are the brightest". When you coach your middle schoolers, do you tell them "hey kids this is just a normal game in the season so if you give zero effort that's a-ok with me".

Butler did not

Again I say. Who cares? Butler this, Butler that, you sound like a scorned lover. Butler aint the issue anymore. He was a diva asshole but he got his wish and it's working for him. Just cause he's a diva asshole doesn't mean what he said about Wiggins and Kat is wrong.


KAT doesn't have the bulk to match up with Embiid. What's he supposed to do about that?

This can't be your excuse for KAT. Really? That's all ya got? KAT couldnt hustle for some rebounds because Embiid is bulkier than him? KAT cant knock down jumpshots, or run the floor, or try to draw contact? Can't switch to a passer who looks to get his teammates involved if he really feels like he cant go toe to toe with Embiid. Max money, no excuses.

And who cares if Butler got what he wanted? I don't see any rings on this fingers yet, and I won't hold my breath.

I care. And you do as well. You can lie about it, but you care. If the Wolves suck, you as a fan, care. That's why you're here. I want Butler to bring drama to the 76ers, I want that shit to implode and for him to play terribly. I want us to make strides and at least win a round in the playoffs after last year. So yeah I care, and with as much as you talk about Butler, you care too

I don't understand why you are so upset over 1 game. If you want to look at the Wolves history, I'm with you on being pissed. If you want to look at the last 14 years, I'm with you. Given all we've been through, was last night really that much of a shock? Did you expect us to go in to Philly without Covington and hang a 20 point loss on them? As I've said it was awful, terrible, and I was furious watching it. But the sun rose this morning and I was able to get out of bed and go to work.

Secondly, I don't understand why you are harboring so much anger toward me. It's probably happened but I don't ever recall cross words between us. I took minor exception to your post and it seems to have opened up an old wound or something. If it helps, Wig sucks, KAT's a pussy, and the Wolves have no future! Does that help? Are we good?

[ItsJustSoSab]

I'm taking my childhood father-son issues out on you. I wasn't hugged enough.

That being said. I've said said multiple times. It ain't anger, it's acceptance and the terribleness of it all. This whole season really. Last night was just the cherry on top of it all. The terrible sundae is overflowing the bowl at this point and messing up the table. Stickiness everywhere, stickiness and sadness. Maybe it was the caps lock on my first post that made you believe it was out of anger. That was more shock at your take at key players being out. Michael Jordan couldn't save us last night let alone RoCo (and I am a fan).

Again, it wasn't one game. Said that again and again. My take comes from history. It's Kat/Wiggins careers so far and the Wolves in general with Glen. But we seem to agree on this historical terribleness with the Wolves. There was shock on how two men can be so humiliated not once, but twice. On and off the court.

I expected some fight. Similar to the OKC game. Win or lose.

We've never had any issues all these years, you are correct. In fact we usually agree. The Wigs things is really the only big thing. Again, maybe it's because it's typing and not us talking face to face but...there aint no anger. If anything, I enjoyed breaking down your post. Good pre-gym distraction.

Oh, and we're only good if you tell me you love me and give me a kiss good night (imagine a blowing kiss emoji here).