Trade Talks Update

[crazy-canuck [enjin:18955461]]

Any trade with miami will almost have to have dieng involved. The only salaries on the heat that make a trade possible for jimmy carry extra years like both the johnsons, olynyk, or whiteside.

Imo, it's going to be either

T.Johnson, richardson, and bam (ideally) or a first

Or

Whiteside and richardson (maybe a first)

[Lipoli390]

Any trade with miami will almost have to have dieng involved. The only salaries on the heat that make a trade possible for jimmy carry extra years like both the johnsons, olynyk, or whiteside.

Imo, it's going to be either

T.Johnson, richardson, and bam (ideally) or a first

Or

Whiteside and richardson (maybe a first)

There are a number of plausible deals that wouldn't need to include Gorgui. There are at least five simple deals involving Richardson that would work under the CBA without including Gorgui or Whiteside.

1. Richardson and Olynyk would straight up for Butler would work
2. Richardson, Adebayo and Winslow for Butler would work
3. Richardson and Waiters for Butler
4. Richardson & T. Johnson for Butler
5. Richardson & James Johnson for Butler

The first three deals would keep the Wolves under the luxury tax. My favorite would be #2, swapping Butler for Richardson, Adebayo and Winslow. I'd like to get the Heat's 2019 pick as well, but I suspect we couldn't get both the pick and Adebayo. I'd take Adebayo over the pick if that's the choice, but I'd try to get Adebayo AND the pick by agreeing to make it lottery-protected. Richardson and Adebayo would be the key pieces for the Wolves. Winslow would be a one-year rental before he either leaves or re-signs at the minimum.

Before the report came out about Miami's interest I was going to post that I though the Heat would be the most aggressive suitors for Butler. That's because it's classic Pat Riley. He isn't patient and is alway looking to make a big move. He's clearly chomping at the bit for relevancy and he knows it doesn't take that much in the East. And obviously, Butler is his type of guy. When you think about it, doing deal #2 above makes a lot of sense for the Heat. They end up with a starting lineup of Dragic, Waiters, Butler, Olynyk or James Johnson and Whiteside. They'd have Ellington, Tyler Johnson, Wade with either James Johnson or Olynyk coming off the bench. Under Spolstra, that's a pretty formidable roster in the East. But without Butler, as currently constituted, Miami's roster will teeter on the edge of lottery irrelevancy -- something that I don't think Riley can stand.

So the Wolves need to be resolute with the Heat and push them as far as possible.

[Leado01]

I would not stop attending games if we got Gordon and Tucker. I wouldn't want Thibs coaching that team, but both Gordon and Tucker can shoot spot up 3's with enough efficiency to allow both Wiggins and KAT to drive and kick. Tucker is a very versatile defender, and they are both physical.but

I'd like to get something younger back, but  a flexible coach could work those parts, and our youth could continue to develop.

[Lipoli390]

I would not stop attending games if we got Gordon and Tucker. I wouldn't want Thibs coaching that team, but both Gordon and Tucker can shoot spot up 3's with enough efficiency to allow both Wiggins and KAT to drive and kick. Tucker is a very versatile defender, and they are both physical.but

I'd like to get something younger back, but  a flexible coach could work those parts, and our youth could continue to develop.

I think Gordon and Tucker would be a terrible deal for the Wolves. But replacing Thibodeau with a better, more flexible modern-day head coach would take some of them sting away.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

You guys talk about Richardson like he's some great young talent. He's solid, but he's not 3rd best player on a contender good and he has no star potential. He's just another version of Khris Middleton. That's no even close to getting us to a contender. I could be talked into Bam being the glue guy 4 who covers a lot up defensively that we need like a Ben Wallace, but Richardson just isn't special. I think Okogie has a solid chance to be better than Richardson.

[Lipoli390]

You guys talk about Richardson like he's some great young talent. He's solid, but he's not 3rd best player on a contender good and he has no star potential. He's just another version of Khris Middleton. That's no even close to getting us to a contender. I could be talked into Bam being the glue guy 4 who covers a lot up defensively that we need like a Ben Wallace, but Richardson just isn't special. I think Okogie has a solid chance to be better than Richardson.

Kahns -

I think your characterization of J. Richardson is fair -- very solid but not special. That's why I've indicated that Bam would be an essential component of any deal with Miami. Who else would you prefer over Richardson in a deal with Miami? We're all just trying to be realistic about the return we can expect for Butler under the circumstances. The time to trade Butler was the May/June timeframe leading up to the draft as I was urging at the time. So we're stuck. But I'd be happy with Richardson and Bam at a minimum, but I'd also like to get Miami's 2021 pick even if lottery protected as well.

Among what you'd consider the realistic deals discussed so far, which one would you prefer?

[AbeVigodaLive]

A couple of things:

1. Count me as those very anti-Whiteside. He was virtually unplayable by the end of the season. It's not a coincidence that he went from being a troubled malcontent to a promising player... back to a troubled malcontent shortly after being paid.

2. Richardson is nice. I like him from what I've seen. As for the Middleton comparisons... that would be a GOOD thing. Many people consider Middleton one of the top 30 or 40 players in the league.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

You guys talk about Richardson like he's some great young talent. He's solid, but he's not 3rd best player on a contender good and he has no star potential. He's just another version of Khris Middleton. That's no even close to getting us to a contender. I could be talked into Bam being the glue guy 4 who covers a lot up defensively that we need like a Ben Wallace, but Richardson just isn't special. I think Okogie has a solid chance to be better than Richardson.

Kahns -

I think your characterization of J. Richardson is fair -- very solid but not special. That's why I've indicated that Bam would be an essential component of any deal with Miami. Who else would you prefer over Richardson in a deal with Miami? We're all just trying to be realistic about the return we can expect for Butler under the circumstances. The time to trade Butler was the May/June timeframe leading up to the draft as I was urging at the time. So we're stuck. But I'd be happy with Richardson and Bam at a minimum, but I'd also like to get Miami's 2021 pick even if lottery protected as well.

Among what you'd consider the realistic deals discussed so far, which one would you prefer?

My main point was just that a deal centered around Richardson or Gordon from Houston both net the same result. Neither one brings back a better player than the other so I don't understand why one is terrible and the other is good. If you aren't getting a young guy back who can be a top 3 player on a contender then it shouldn't matter that Gordon is 30 and Richardson is 25 or Gordon misses more games. They're both deck furniture being moved around and Okogie is hopefully taking the spot from either long-term.

I think there is too much emphasis on what we get back needs to be young. If we're getting back role players I would rather get ones who fit around my young guys and have been on elite teams than just go for guys because they're younger. If you can get a Bam or Knox you do it, but I don't think those guys are on the table so get some vets who can get out of the way if our existing young guys step up. Youth for youth's sake is a bad mentality especially on a team handing the keys back to their 22/23 year old players who aren't real leaders yet. Then you just have a bunch of young guys who don't really know how to play and adapt to each other.

To me a package around Gordon and Tucker means we make the playoffs again and again have flexibility for going after that 3rd guy we need when the time is right. A trade like Richardson/Olynyk has me shaky on the playoff front and neither can be the 3rd guy and they both enter the risk of being overpaid role players in the future when we really need a 3rd all-star.

I just think if you aren't getting that 3rd guy in this trade which I think is highly unlikely, give me the guys who fit around my existing core, can get out of the way if a young guy steps up and can be gone in a year or two to try to make a big move or get the next set of deck furniture. There's just too much player movement to try to lock up a young team for 4-5 years at a time. The new NBA is all about flexibility.

[WildWolf2813]

Word is that Dion Waiters is being held out of the media day stuff in Miami

[Coolbreeze44]

Word is that Dion Waiters is being held out of the media day stuff in Miami

I heard the same for Whiteside, Winslow, and Richardson.