CoolBreeze44 wrote:I think what he meant was posters who are against hiring Thibodeau are driving their agenda by bringing up the negative reports on him. And his belief is those reports are baseless.
Some reports have merit, such as Thibs and CHI management not getting along as well as him working his players too hard in practice. Some are just ridiculous to me, though. The "bad with media" opinion and "at least three starters wanted Thibs gone" report are head-scratching. Seems made up to me, or at least not very true.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:When Cam mentioned pushing an agenda... I thought he meant the Chicago brass. Because there's a very good chance that's where most of the antiThibodeau stuff comes from.
If so... Kudos to the Bulls public relations team. It did its job well
There were multiple media reports at the time which cited unsourced players exhaustion with This. All cited here a long time ago. Yes no players went on record but that shouldn't be a surprise.
Yes. I know. And my point was that there's very strong suspicion that those reports were leaked by Bulls management. And since it's nearly a year later and those leaked reports are gospel to some and at least making most of the rest of us think twice... great job by the Bulls for leaking them. Or, fabricating them? Or, exaggerating them? Nobody really knows.
[Note: For the record, I didn't know there were any Thibs vs. media beefs.]
AbeVigodaLive wrote:When Cam mentioned pushing an agenda... I thought he meant the Chicago brass. Because there's a very good chance that's where most of the antiThibodeau stuff comes from.
If so... Kudos to the Bulls public relations team. It did its job well
There were multiple media reports at the time which cited unsourced players exhaustion with This. All cited here a long time ago. Yes no players went on record but that shouldn't be a surprise.
Yes. I know. And my point was that there's very strong suspicion that those reports were leaked by Bulls management. And since it's nearly a year later and those leaked reports are gospel to some and at least making most of the rest of us think twice... great job by the Bulls for leaking them. Or, fabricating them? Or, exaggerating them? Nobody really knows.
[Note: For the record, I didn't know there were any Thibs vs. media beefs.]
Zach Lowe discussed players telling him personally that Thibs was wearing them out a month before Thibs was fired. I posted the link to the podcast where he said this on another thread in which the same discussion was happening. That podcast is no longer on the ESPN site because it was last year. I'll take his access and credibility as a journalist over Cam's skepticism.
For the record, I don't care if there were any Thibodeau vs the media beefs. But he at least needs to have the respect of his players, and he needs to respect and co-exist with the administration and ownership.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:When Cam mentioned pushing an agenda... I thought he meant the Chicago brass. Because there's a very good chance that's where most of the antiThibodeau stuff comes from.
If so... Kudos to the Bulls public relations team. It did its job well
There were multiple media reports at the time which cited unsourced players exhaustion with This. All cited here a long time ago. Yes no players went on record but that shouldn't be a surprise.
Yes. I know. And my point was that there's very strong suspicion that those reports were leaked by Bulls management. And since it's nearly a year later and those leaked reports are gospel to some and at least making most of the rest of us think twice... great job by the Bulls for leaking them. Or, fabricating them? Or, exaggerating them? Nobody really knows.
[Note: For the record, I didn't know there were any Thibs vs. media beefs.]
Zach Lowe discussed players telling him personally that Thibs was wearing them out a month before Thibs was fired. I posted the link to the podcast where he said this on another thread in which the same discussion was happening. That podcast is no longer on the ESPN site because it was last year. I'll take his access and credibility as a journalist over Cam's skepticism.
Since I have a basketball geek crush on Zach Lowe... I won't quibble with that.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:For the record, I don't care if there were any Thibodeau vs the media beefs. But he at least needs to have the respect of his players, and he needs to respect and co-exist with the administration and ownership.
Yes. Respect of the players is HUGE.
But did he lose the respect of his players? His hard-driving ways might have been wearing thin... but that's very different than losing respect. Seeing how hard that team competed more often than not could be considered anecdotal evidence that he had their respect.
And getting along with ownership is important, to varying degrees. You don't want a Billy Martin/Steinbrenner thing going on or even what Thibs and the Bulls had going on. But remember, as noted, Jackson wasn't exactly on sweet terms during his tenure either. Basically, winning cures a lot of ills.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:For the record, I don't care if there were any Thibodeau vs the media beefs. But he at least needs to have the respect of his players, and he needs to respect and co-exist with the administration and ownership.
Yes. Respect of the players is HUGE.
But did he lose the respect of his players? His hard-driving ways might have been wearing thin... but that's very different than losing respect. Seeing how hard that team competed more often than not could be considered anecdotal evidence that he had their respect.
And getting along with ownership is important, to varying degrees. You don't want a Billy Martin/Steinbrenner thing going on or even what Thibs and the Bulls had going on. But remember, as noted, Jackson wasn't exactly on sweet terms during his tenure either. Basically, winning cures a lot of ills.
I saw the way they quit in that last playoff series as a sign of disrespect. Maybe they knew he was on the way out, but it still looked bad.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:When Cam mentioned pushing an agenda... I thought he meant the Chicago brass. Because there's a very good chance that's where most of the antiThibodeau stuff comes from.
If so... Kudos to the Bulls public relations team. It did its job well
There were multiple media reports at the time which cited unsourced players exhaustion with This. All cited here a long time ago. Yes no players went on record but that shouldn't be a surprise.
Yes. I know. And my point was that there's very strong suspicion that those reports were leaked by Bulls management. And since it's nearly a year later and those leaked reports are gospel to some and at least making most of the rest of us think twice... great job by the Bulls for leaking them. Or, fabricating them? Or, exaggerating them? Nobody really knows.
[Note: For the record, I didn't know there were any Thibs vs. media beefs.]
Zach Lowe discussed players telling him personally that Thibs was wearing them out a month before Thibs was fired. I posted the link to the podcast where he said this on another thread in which the same discussion was happening. That podcast is no longer on the ESPN site because it was last year. I'll take his access and credibility as a journalist over Cam's skepticism.
Since I have a basketball geek crush on Zach Lowe... I won't quibble with that.
This isn't the same webcast I was referring to, but it touches on most of the issues that are being discussed here. The main Chicago talk starts at 40mins. The media thing doesn't seem to be much of an issue in that he is well respected from what I can tell. Also Cam is right on about Chicago ownership/management being passive aggressive losers. But he is absolutely a grinder and it does seem like that could wear on players; there did seem to be some exhausted players(see the comments around 50mins); and I question whether Thibs would be a great POBO as he thinks he can get the most out of anyone. All that being said, Thibs is a basketball freak, and a winner. And I believe we would win with him. I just like JVG better, because I think we would win with him too and have more confidence in his ability as the POBO.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:When Cam mentioned pushing an agenda... I thought he meant the Chicago brass. Because there's a very good chance that's where most of the antiThibodeau stuff comes from.
If so... Kudos to the Bulls public relations team. It did its job well
There were multiple media reports at the time which cited unsourced players exhaustion with This. All cited here a long time ago. Yes no players went on record but that shouldn't be a surprise.
Yes. I know. And my point was that there's very strong suspicion that those reports were leaked by Bulls management. And since it's nearly a year later and those leaked reports are gospel to some and at least making most of the rest of us think twice... great job by the Bulls for leaking them. Or, fabricating them? Or, exaggerating them? Nobody really knows.
[Note: For the record, I didn't know there were any Thibs vs. media beefs.]
Zach Lowe discussed players telling him personally that Thibs was wearing them out a month before Thibs was fired. I posted the link to the podcast where he said this on another thread in which the same discussion was happening. That podcast is no longer on the ESPN site because it was last year. I'll take his access and credibility as a journalist over Cam's skepticism.
Since I have a basketball geek crush on Zach Lowe... I won't quibble with that.
This isn't the same webcast I was referring to, but it touches on most of the issues that are being discussed here. The main Chicago talk starts at 40mins. The media thing doesn't seem to be much of an issue in that he is well respected from what I can tell. Also Cam is right on about Chicago ownership/management being passive aggressive losers. But he is absolutely a grinder and it does seem like that could wear on players; there did seem to be some exhausted players(see the comments around 50mins); and I question whether Thibs would be a great POBO as he thinks he can get the most out of anyone. All that being said, Thibs is a basketball freak, and a winner. And I believe we would win with him. I just like JVG better, because I think we would win with him too and have more confidence in his ability as the POBO.
Thanks. As noted many times previously... I worry about the POBO stuff too with him.
For the record, I worry about Van Gundy being gone for nearly a decade and not winning in the playoffs in 17 years, too. (for all this talk about coaches ages in this thread, anybody else amazed at how young Van Gundy was in NY and Houston? He always seemed so much older than that to me!
[Note: Me being younger myself probably helped with that...]
AbeVigodaLive wrote:When Cam mentioned pushing an agenda... I thought he meant the Chicago brass. Because there's a very good chance that's where most of the antiThibodeau stuff comes from.
If so... Kudos to the Bulls public relations team. It did its job well
There were multiple media reports at the time which cited unsourced players exhaustion with This. All cited here a long time ago. Yes no players went on record but that shouldn't be a surprise.
Yes. I know. And my point was that there's very strong suspicion that those reports were leaked by Bulls management. And since it's nearly a year later and those leaked reports are gospel to some and at least making most of the rest of us think twice... great job by the Bulls for leaking them. Or, fabricating them? Or, exaggerating them? Nobody really knows.
[Note: For the record, I didn't know there were any Thibs vs. media beefs.]
Zach Lowe discussed players telling him personally that Thibs was wearing them out a month before Thibs was fired. I posted the link to the podcast where he said this on another thread in which the same discussion was happening. That podcast is no longer on the ESPN site because it was last year. I'll take his access and credibility as a journalist over Cam's skepticism.
Since I have a basketball geek crush on Zach Lowe... I won't quibble with that.
This isn't the same webcast I was referring to, but it touches on most of the issues that are being discussed here. The main Chicago talk starts at 40mins. The media thing doesn't seem to be much of an issue in that he is well respected from what I can tell. Also Cam is right on about Chicago ownership/management being passive aggressive losers. But he is absolutely a grinder and it does seem like that could wear on players; there did seem to be some exhausted players(see the comments around 50mins); and I question whether Thibs would be a great POBO as he thinks he can get the most out of anyone. All that being said, Thibs is a basketball freak, and a winner. And I believe we would win with him. I just like JVG better, because I think we would win with him too and have more confidence in his ability as the POBO.
Thanks. As noted many times previously... I worry about the POBO stuff too with him.
For the record, I worry about Van Gundy being gone for nearly a decade and not winning in the playoffs in 17 years, too. (for all this talk about coaches ages in this thread, anybody else amazed at how young Van Gundy was in NY and Houston? He always seemed so much older than that to me!
[Note: Me being younger myself probably helped with that...]
I know I can't believe Van Gundy is younger than Thibs everytime that is brought up becuase he has been in the NBA forever it seems like. I recognize it has been a while for Van Gundy but every interview he has done (there are a few extensive ones with Lowe) he seems completely tapped into what is happening in the NBA now. I wouldn't be worried about the time away. More whether his own know it all attitude and his offensive deficiencies would be a problem for us.
