Bench and minutes distribution criticism

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

At some point, Wiggins' shot is going to start coming back around and that will be a very good thing. The bigger problem is that even "good Wiggins" is a pretty inefficient scorer thanks to his poor shot selection and mediocre free throwing. He absolutely SHOULD be the 3rd option...or may be even 4th if you throw Teague in there.

[BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520]]

At some point, Wiggins' shot is going to start coming back around and that will be a very good thing. The bigger problem is that even "good Wiggins" is a pretty inefficient scorer thanks to his poor shot selection and mediocre free throwing. He absolutely SHOULD be the 3rd option...or may be even 4th if you throw Teague in there.

Right, Teague is probably a better scorer, so max deal for our 4th option. Ouch.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/12/21/16805198/minnesota-timberwolves-nba-most-improved

Happy to see that I got a mention in the last paragraph!

Nice going, O...well deserved!

The premise of the article is interesting...yes, it's odd that there is so much angst surrounding a team that is 6 games over .500 after being a perennial loser. You hear it on this forum too...so many posters talk about how it's difficult to get behind this team. I think the lack of joy is due to two main factors:

1) As Britt Robson has pointed out a few times and Jon K has hinted at, there is an odd dynamic with this team...both on the court and on the bench. Body language is negative, and there seems to be a general lack of joy. It's difficult to put your finger on what's going on, but it's very visible watching games in person.

2) I thnk many (me included) think that this team is overachieving after picking up Butler et al in the offseason. We have played a very weak schedule and been fortunate to play teams missing their best player(s) while we have stayed quite healthy. And yet we are losing too many games where we are favored against bad teams, and winning some games only because Jamal Crawford got incredibly hot at the end of games. I look at the last home stand where we lost two games in which we were heavy favorites. Imagine if the Vikings lost two games in which they were heavy favorites...there would be way more despair than we are currently experiencing with the Wolves.

[Monster]

Man I see Butler all the time having fun which includes staring down people and then grinning a few seconds later etc. It's funny the guy that has the rep and back it up as an intense guy on both ends happens to be having fun out there...hmm...interesting.

Honestly I don't think a lot of these guys are really people that are gonna be particularly joyful on the court. I think some people forget about how this team is made up.

Belly is a pretty serious dude.

Wiggins even when engaged tend to be boring except a dunk on Gobert or something fires him up.

Towns is demonstrative but could put up 40-25-10 and be pissed at himself about something.

Teague yawn.

Taj? Does his job

Tyus does his job

Dieng? Not really he has been more fiery than anything the last couple years.

Bazz gets fired up about something then a few seconds later goes back to going about his business.

MGH is just hanging out trying to keep his career going. Seems pretty chill in everything I have watched of him.

Cole seems to have fun on the bench I guess.

Lavine was a guy that at least had plenty of joy off the court he was just a fun dude. Thank goodness we got Jimmy back and to some extent added Crawford or basically nobody would say anything interesting around this team. Obviously Rubio added a certain amount of joy and flare that isn't here anymore. Maybe this group just isn't a "joyful" group. Does that make any sense to anyone else? This roster might need a guy to come in and give them a bit more in this regard. Patton could be one of those guys if he can actually be any good.

[Porckchop]

Is this teams overall attitude being drug down by what is perceived to be a lack of fire by one player?

Maybe a poor example but I'm a union mason and work around a lot surly personalities on a day to day basis. The attitude on the wall usually is determined by the the grumpiest most unpleasant of the bunch each day. Bad attitudes put others on edge and it becomes contagious.

[AbeVigodaLive]

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/12/21/16805198/minnesota-timberwolves-nba-most-improved

Happy to see that I got a mention in the last paragraph!

Nice going, O...well deserved!

The premise of the article is interesting...yes, it's odd that there is so much angst surrounding a team that is 6 games over .500 after being a perennial loser. You hear it on this forum too...so many posters talk about how it's difficult to get behind this team. I think the lack of joy is due to two main factors:

1) As Britt Robson has pointed out a few times and Jon K has hinted at, there is an odd dynamic with this team...both on the court and on the bench. Body language is negative, and there seems to be a general lack of joy. It's difficult to put your finger on what's going on, but it's very visible watching games in person.
.

It is an odd dynamic, indeed... considering how overjoyed we'd all have been to be 19 - 13 at any point over the past 13 years. But that stench of frustration is unavoidable. Are we simply that dour and pathetic and resigned to losing forever and don't know how to react? Maybe. Or, take you pick...

1. Bad losses. Phoenix x2. Memphis. Washington (no Wall). Et al.
2. ISO ball. It's not especially inspired ball for 2018. But that didn't stop former fans from loving their basketball teams a few years ago who played even more iso ball.
3. Thibs barking.
4. Inevitable doom knowing Houston and GSW are simply THAT much better.
5. The reality slowly setting in that this is near as good as it gets? Think about it... who is the one guy who's answered the bell the most? The guy carrying this team at times? Is it Wiggins? NO. Is it Towns? No. It's Butler, the guy who some didn't want as much because he'd be past his prime when the young stars reached theirs. Are we realizing that the primes of Wiggins + Towns MIGHT not be all we expected? So considering Butler is easily our best player, is there still a lot of improvement to be found with this core?

I don't know if it's any one... or a combination... or something else entirely. But the vibe is unmistakable. It's weird. I feel bad not being more upbeat and positive and optimistic about this squad... as a fan since 1989... I should know that I should never take a winning Timberwolves team for granted.

[Lipoli390]

Good post, Abe. Like you, I want to be more upbeat about this team, which is now 6 games over .500. But I share the same reluctance as many others. I think the reason is a combination of all the things you mentioned.

For me I think it boils down primarily to 3 things:

1. The bad losses that should not have happened given our talent advantage, including the games you mentioned, but also including the home blow-out loss to Miami and other losses. We should have done better than 3-2 in this last home stand and our record should be better given our schedule to date in my view. The toughest part of our schedule lies ahead.

2. Our motionless, antiquated iso offense in a League where the best teams play with lots of pace and ball movement. It's frustrating to watch. It's not just aesthetically ugly, but it also fails to get the most out of our talent while simultaneously making us easier to defend.

3. The reality that there doesn't appear much more upside to this team and that this may be as good as it gets. Butler is great and KAT still looks like he could be great. Taj has been terrific, but he's 32 years old. Then it looks bleak after that. Wiggins is not going to be anything remotely close to the top 10 player Flip thought he could be and shows little sign of any discernible improvement, including improvement in key areas like scoring efficiency, rebounding, assists/playmaking, Free-throw shooting or ball handling. Gorgui is a disappointment and Bazz is a bust. Belly has a chronic foot problem. Meanwhile Zach and Dunn are gone and we have no more lottery picks on the horizon and have no more cap room.

The biggest single factor for me is Wiggins. If he looked like he was on track to becoming at least close to the player Flip and many thought he'd be, I think I'd be far more positive in spite of Thibs because I'd see long range hope. I sometimes imagine hie I'd feel about this team if we had the Greek Freak instead of Wiggins. Even better, if we had him instead of Bazz.

[BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520]]

Lip, Zach Lowe said as much in his "10 things" today. We have a point differential of most .500 teams, Wiggins is regressing, and somehow we're 19-13. I know it's mostly Jimmy but this isn't sustainable.

[Lipoli390]

Lip, Zach Lowe said as much in his "10 things" today. We have a point differential of most .500 teams, Wiggins is regressing, and somehow we're 19-13. I know it's mostly Jimmy but this isn't sustainable.

Sustainability is the right word, Jerry.