Maybe we could get Milsap or Ibaka after all?

[Lipoli390]

Interesting. Thanks for posting, Bloop. Monster's right that there are some other teams that will be able to clear cap space. But we will still stack up well cap-wise compared to other teams during this summer's free agency period. I we have the chance to sign a max or near-max player like Ibaka or Millsap, the real question for us will be whether we want to tie up our own cap space to that degree, knowing that we'll have to pay max money to Wiggins and KAT in addition to big money to Zach.

Between Ibaka and Millsap, I'd say that Ibaka looks like the better fit for us statistically based on his shot-blocking and three-point shooting - two of our biggest needs identified by Thibs. His age also fits better. But I just have this uneasy feeling about Ibaka based on his consistent statistical decline the past few seasons and inability to stick with a team. Maybe rumors that he understated his age are true in a huge way and he's actually 33 years old and declining because of age. Otherwise, his decline is so consistent and pronounced, spanning different teams, that I suspect he's lost his passion for the game. In any even, a decline like his at his age is a big red flag in my book. Millsap isn't much of a shot-blocker or three-point shooter and I didn't like his shooting percentage this past season. I don't like his age either as a fit for the Wolves. But he's a superb defender and excellent rebounder. And I like his professionalism and toughness.

I honestly don't know what I'd do. My gut tells me that Millsap would be the guy most likely to significantly move the needle for us over the next couple seasons. He could be that rock that solidifies our rotation with his toughness and professionalism. But I have my reservations.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I hope it doesn't take a max contract to get Ibaka. It might not be the best use of $s if does take a max contract. But that's up to Thibs and company to decide. Speaking of which:

Did anyone else notice Thibs comments about "everyone needs to examine the way they do things, from all the way at the top, to all the way at the bottom." I wondered if this was a signal to Taylor and a willingness to spend luxury tax type money...

The Wolves are 60 - 104 over the past two seasons... they shouldn't be worried about the luxury tax yet.

Win 41 games first. Make the playoffs first. Then, we can bark at Taylor for being cheap if he draws the line at the cap.

[AbeVigodaLive]

A lot of teams can create much more cap space than those numbers imply. I'm more interested in hoping some teams dump some worthwhile guys (in one sense or another) or let them go and the Wolves can scoop them up because I don't think the Wolves are going to get the guys this thread is hoping for.

I don't see any team that can create enough to offer a max that isn't already close in dollars and has a more promising team than us. Houtson is only one remotely close and they won't be able to do it either.

1-Boston-max and wins (very bad fit for Milsap with Horford there in my opinion)
2-Miami-max and potential
3-Minnesota-max and potential
4-Houtson- decent money and wins

then I see a clear drop in terms of combining money and winning/potential for free agents

Ironically, Milsap and Horford won 60 games as a bad fit together.



[Note: To be fair, I agree it's not ideal for Boston because of rebounding and their ages... but they did complement each other well for years in Atlanta.]

[Lipoli390]

I hope it doesn't take a max contract to get Ibaka. It might not be the best use of $s if does take a max contract. But that's up to Thibs and company to decide. Speaking of which:

Did anyone else notice Thibs comments about "everyone needs to examine the way they do things, from all the way at the top, to all the way at the bottom." I wondered if this was a signal to Taylor and a willingness to spend luxury tax type money...

I don't think so, Tim. I think Thibs was alluding to himself and Layden as the guys at the top. We're nowhere near the point where the luxury tax becomes a factor in decision-making. And Taylor has never been shy about spending money as he showed when he signed KG to the biggest contract in NBA history at the time. Moreover, I doubt Thibs would take a shot at the owner who hired him and who stands as the only one who can fire him.

Since Thibs has the dual role of head coach and PBO, he has to hold himself accountable since he's really accountable to no one. So I was glad to see that quote, assuming he was referring to himself as the top.

[60WinTim]

I hope it doesn't take a max contract to get Ibaka. It might not be the best use of $s if does take a max contract. But that's up to Thibs and company to decide. Speaking of which:

Did anyone else notice Thibs comments about "everyone needs to examine the way they do things, from all the way at the top, to all the way at the bottom." I wondered if this was a signal to Taylor and a willingness to spend luxury tax type money...

I don't think so, Tim. I think Thibs was alluding to himself and Layden as the guys at the top. We're nowhere near the point where the luxury tax becomes a factor in decision-making. And Taylor has never been shy about spending money as he showed when he signed KG to the biggest contract in NBA history at the time. Moreover, I doubt Thibs would take a shot at the owner who hired him and who stands as the only one who can fire him.

Since Thibs has the dual role of head coach and PBO, he has to hold himself accountable since he's really accountable to no one. So I was glad to see that quote, assuming he was referring to himself as the top.

He was definitely including himself. It just made me wonder if he was hinting at anyone else above him... I was probably reading too much into it.

[Monster]

A lot of teams can create much more cap space than those numbers imply. I'm more interested in hoping some teams dump some worthwhile guys (in one sense or another) or let them go and the Wolves can scoop them up because I don't think the Wolves are going to get the guys this thread is hoping for.

I don't see any team that can create enough to offer a max that isn't already close in dollars and has a more promising team than us. Houtson is only one remotely close and they won't be able to do it either.

1-Boston-max and wins (very bad fit for Milsap with Horford there in my opinion)
2-Miami-max and potential
3-Minnesota-max and potential
4-Houtson- decent money and wins

then I see a clear drop in terms of combining money and winning/potential for free agents

You really need to look at the teams that have contracts that are not guanteeded and have team options. For example the Mavs could have a ton of cap space even if you include Noel's cap hold. Dumping Dirk's option is 25 million bucks and they have some other smaller contracts to let go. I love the optimism of this thread I just don't think you see how many team could dump players without even getting into trading off guys with contracts to go in on top level FA. Plus there are organizations that may have fewer wins this year but have been more successful in the past few years like say the Mavs that a player might want to go there over the Wolves. Carlie's just got 2 guard nobody wanted to look pretty good this last year. Some of those teams will have better opportunity for playing time as well and that can be a big deal.

[Monster]

I don't think Thibs was taking a shot at Taylor but I did have a it of that thought Tim had that EVERYONE had to look to get better. I thought it was more about Thibs and his coaching staff etc than Taylor though but really in something as competitive as that you should have everyone active to get better or...you aren't going to be good enough. I thought it was a good sign though that Thibs did seem to be considering himself a guy that needed to improve. I tend to think he is less hard headed and close minded as some people think but I'm optimistic about people in that way.

[Lipoli390]

I don't think Thibs was taking a shot at Taylor but I did have a it of that thought Tim had that EVERYONE had to look to get better. I thought it was more about Thibs and his coaching staff etc than Taylor though but really in something as competitive as that you should have everyone active to get better or...you aren't going to be good enough. I thought it was a good sign though that Thibs did seem to be considering himself a guy that needed to improve. I tend to think he is less hard headed and close minded as some people think but I'm optimistic about people in that way.

Monster -- As you know I wasn't thrilled with the Thibs hire in the first place and haven't been particularly impressed by him. But I do think the guy is a smart basketball guy. And while I'm convinced he's stubborn, I don't think he's close-minded. By that I mean, he'll stubbornly pursue something but eventually recognize and admit to himself when he turns out to be wrong. I think it might take a little longer for him to admit it and move on, but I think he's open to acknowledging his own mistakes. At least I hope so.

[BloopOracle]

A lot of teams can create much more cap space than those numbers imply. I'm more interested in hoping some teams dump some worthwhile guys (in one sense or another) or let them go and the Wolves can scoop them up because I don't think the Wolves are going to get the guys this thread is hoping for.

I don't see any team that can create enough to offer a max that isn't already close in dollars and has a more promising team than us. Houtson is only one remotely close and they won't be able to do it either.

1-Boston-max and wins (very bad fit for Milsap with Horford there in my opinion)
2-Miami-max and potential
3-Minnesota-max and potential
4-Houtson- decent money and wins

then I see a clear drop in terms of combining money and winning/potential for free agents

You really need to look at the teams that have contracts that are not guanteeded and have team options. For example the Mavs could have a ton of cap space even if you include Noel's cap hold. Dumping Dirk's option is 25 million bucks and they have some other smaller contracts to let go. I love the optimism of this thread I just don't think you see how many team could dump players without even getting into trading off guys with contracts to go in on top level FA. Plus there are organizations that may have fewer wins this year but have been more successful in the past few years like say the Mavs that a player might want to go there over the Wolves. Carlie's just got 2 guard nobody wanted to look pretty good this last year. Some of those teams will have better opportunity for playing time as well and that can be a big deal.

Can you cite any teams with more potential than us? With Dirk on his last legs I wouldn't consider them ahead. Houston is the only team that isn't projected to be in the negatives, I don't see any other teams good enough with options or non guaranteed contracts big enough to push them from negative dollars to being able to offer a max.

[Monster]

I don't think Thibs was taking a shot at Taylor but I did have a it of that thought Tim had that EVERYONE had to look to get better. I thought it was more about Thibs and his coaching staff etc than Taylor though but really in something as competitive as that you should have everyone active to get better or...you aren't going to be good enough. I thought it was a good sign though that Thibs did seem to be considering himself a guy that needed to improve. I tend to think he is less hard headed and close minded as some people think but I'm optimistic about people in that way.

Monster -- As you know I wasn't thrilled with the Thibs hire in the first place and haven't been particularly impressed by him. But I do think the guy is a smart basketball guy. And while I'm convinced he's stubborn, I don't think he's close-minded. By that I mean, he'll stubbornly pursue something but eventually recognize and admit to himself when he turns out to be wrong. I think it might take a little longer for him to admit it and move on, but I think he's open to acknowledging his own mistakes. At least I hope so.

Lip just to clarify I think especially the last couple months you have been critical but mostly fair in your view of Thibs. I'm more speaking to the conventional wisdom out there in basketball land that has Thibs as a basketball robot tyrant (using a bit of hyperbole here) who is a control freak has no personality etc etc. I've actually been kinda pleased with his calm and thoughtful demeanor when he is off the court and last offseason especially we saw he had some personality. That interaction he had with the ref one of the last games that was caught on camera was hilarious.

I was having a conversation this last weekend with a friend who is finishing his doctoral degree in vocal performance and is doing paid work now on various productions around the country. We talked about geniuses and we touched on Wagner (who he is doing readings on at the moment) and he mentioned how so many geniuses are great but have some quirks and often have some sort of dark side to them and it makes a lot of sense that they do. I think we can all see plenty of sports geniuses are that way. KG is a terrific example. Kobe also. Phil Jackson as a basketball and guru in general has some issues. Larry Bird who is stepping aside from his duties as many people know has a darks side partly based on his childhood. Some of it is just the things that make those geniuses so good it's also a problem. If they can recognize that it's a good thing and often I think if they have some people in their life that are different enough to balance them out that can help.

One typical source...Thibs doesn't have a wife to help balance him out but be may have hired some folks around him that help in that way. I know you aren't a fan of Layden but he does seem like a good fit for Thibs and they seem to have the organization set up to be a coloborative one. It would be good if they could find a chatty guy that wouldn't give stuff away that would talk to the media and be kind of a marketing guy for the franchise. Oh hey Towns fits that profile well.

A few real legit questions about this franchise going forward with the folks in charge.

Is Thibs actually a good leader? That matters in so many way but it also matters whether he can get his young players to be leaders.

How well does he do with building relationships? He doesn't have to be best friends with everyone but does he treat people well and all that type of stuff and find enough connections with people that really matter?

Does he have an eye for talent or able to listen and decifer who knows what the he'll they are talking about and who might lead him astray?

How innovative is he? That's one of the things he is noted for especially defensively and it seems he has hired plenty of folks to do a lot of different things in the organization so he isn't from the dark ages. Does he look for a smart offensive guy to help? Is that guy in the organization already?

I feel relatively good about Thibs actually but I think thisboffseason we will get a lot more hints at what he has built in the last few months with this organization. I'm mostly looking forward to how it unfolds not dreading it. I compare it to when Kahn was here and he said all kinds of good thing and it turns out the guy was kind of a jerk and was way in over his head. Thibs isn't The gregarious Flip either but is more like him in the sense he is a well regarded basketball lifer now tasked with running a franchise. We have learned lately Flip was uniquely qualified for such a job more than we would have ever guess when he got then job a few years ago. Does Thibs have more qualities like that than we may have expected? We will see.