Wolves @ Jazz - GDT - Maybe Tonight?

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I'm not seeing an overreaction or "knee jerking" in Drew's original post that you jumped on him for. He said Wiggins was very talented, but can't have nights like last night... which is true. He played like shit and his effort was just as bad. There's no overreaction there. You tend to overrate Wiggins as a 20-year old, which is your prerogative, but it's not necessary to go after somebody for pointing out that Wiggins was bad or that he has weaknesses.

This is rich coming from the guy that just ripped Pork Chop in the "let me be first" thread for doing the same thing.

Huh? I let Pork Chop know that the main reason the Wolves are losing right now is not because of Ricky Rubio, that we have bigger issues than him. How is that in any way similar to this? Cool acted as if Drew said that Wiggins was trash and would never become a good player. He claimed that Drew was overreacting when all he said was Wiggins can't play like he did last night, which is a true statement. You amuse me, sjm.

You're right, I acted like Drew said that. My mistake was I shouldn't have used Drew's post as an example for my rant. My frustration wasn't with Drew, but with the prevailing theme on this board that these kids shouldn't make mistakes and should be polished products right now. Wiggins or Zach for that matter can't do anything wrong without getting doubted or in some cases ripped for their play. I know we all have a huge emotional investment in the type of players these guys become. But for Chrissakes let them develop at the pace they are. If they were disappointments like DWill and Wes were, I could see some justification for the eeyore type reaction these guys get after a bad game. But Zach, Wig, Towns, Dieng, and Bazz are all good players who are going to get better, one or two will become great. KAT certainly has the most mature game and apparent highest ceiling, but these other guys can become stars too. It's just going to take some time for things to evolve. It seems like Zach is a savior one week, and a guy too limited to count on the next. All I'm really saying is let's not get too down when they go through a rough patch, nor too high when they have a breakout game. I'm trying to enjoy the ride even though the wins aren't here yet.

I can agree with this take. Just have to keep reminding ourselves that Towns, Wiggins and LaVine are still just 20-year olds. I think we have such high hopes for these kids that when we see them struggle, it gets amplified. I can deal with the struggles, but I just want the effort to always be there. That's what frustrates me with Wiggins from time to time.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

1. Pork Chop hasn't moved off his stance at all. He's very stubborn when it comes to Rubio. I don't see how we can't all agree on that. It's fact.

2. Rubio's not the guy to blame for these losses. You can't pin these losses on one player when the issues are as big as team defense and three-point shooting. That stance is ridiculous.

3. Taking my comment out of context. How very sjm of you. Here's the actual quote. Read it carefully. Read it twice, actually. "You're a fool IF you believe that Rubio is supposed to be the guy that turns the entire franchise around."

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

You and I are usually on the same page, SP. Well, at least as far as mother-in-laws go. But I disagree on your take of our 3-point shooting. We have no idea what our 3-point shooting would look like if we actually ran an offense that placed an emphasis on taking them. How can anyone be consistently decent at something that they do not incorporate on a regular basis? Smitch is doing the players a disservice by not putting them in a position to routinely take 3-point shots.

Now, I suppose an argument can be made there are so many other things the Wolves are working on for both offense and defense that 3-point shooting has taken a back burner for the time being...

I think you're both right. We absolutely need to get more 3-point shots up, but it needs to be from the right folks. Giving Wiggins the green light to jack up 3's would exploit a weakness and get him away from trying to get to the hoop. I agree that he should not be taking 3's unless absolutely wide open or the shot clock is winding down.

Take KAT however. He's made 38% of his 3's thus far, but it's a fairly small sample size. However, he's made 49% of his long 2's and he's taken plenty of them. That's an incredible percentage. Why on earth would we not want him to back up and make those 3's? I'm pretty sure he will knock down at least 35% of his open 3's, which is a much better effective FG% than the 49% he currently shoots on long 2's. And the thing, is it doesn't even require a special play. Just run the exact same pick and pop play he and Rubio run all the time. The difference is he pops out to beyond the arc instead of just inside of it.

The other guy that needs to take more 3's is Zach. Here is a guy that is almost effortless in rising up and getting his shot off (granted, they don't go in all the time, although lately they have). If anyone should have plays designed to get him 3's, it's him, especially since he can get them off even while closely guarded. Here is an interesting stat:

Average 3's attempted per 36 minutes/3-pt%:
Damian Lillard - 8.0/38%
Lou Williams - 5.7/33%
Jamal Crawford - 5.4/32%
Kyrie Irving - 5.4/26%
Zach LaVine - 4.5/35%

Zach is a shot maker that can get hot, just like these other guys. Why is he not taking a larger proportion of his shots from beyond the arc? His 3-pt% isn't great, but it's the second best on that list above and certainly good enough to justify more volume.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Wow, 2-10 from 3's vs. 10-25 for Utah. This is my favorite part of checking the box score since I don't get to watch many games. Amazing how much we get outgunned every game. Keep working that Long 2 offense Sammich!

So you wanted them to shoot 50 threes just to make up the difference in three point scoring? The loss would have been of epic proportions had they done so.

Why do you always fight me on this? This is a season long problem, not just one game

It's a season long problem because they don't have the players who can efficiently shoot three pointers. Three point shooting is to this team what all shooting is to Rubio, both can have the occasional outburst, neither can be counted on. I agree that there are a couple players I would like to see shoot them more, but they aren't losing do to not taking more threes.

Complaining this team as it's currently constructed doesn't shoot enough threes is like complaining JJ Barea doesn't grab enough rebounds.

Yes. And no.

It's not necessarily only the number of 3 pointers. It's that the team is among the league leaders in long 2 pointers attempted even though they make only about 36%.

We can all agree that they aren't going to be a good three point shooting team. But they're not a good long 2 point shooting team either... so why are they shooting so many of those?

At the very least... take one or two steps back and play the math game. 3 > 2.

[Lipoli390]

I can't agree that we wouldn't be a good 3-point shooting team, depending on who plays, how much and with whom, and assuming we took more three pointers within an offensive system designed to generate good three-point looks. I think we have 5 players on this roster who can be good 3-point shooters now with the potential to be very good: KAT, Zach, Belly, Rudez & Martin. I also think Wiggins can be a decent 3-point shooter. Even Rubio has shown that the one shooting skill he might be able to develop is his three point set shot.

[Lipoli390]

I can't agree that we wouldn't be a good 3-point shooting team, depending on who plays, how much and with whom, and assuming we took more three pointers within an offensive system designed to generate good three-point looks. I think we have 5 players on this roster who can be good 3-point shooters now with the potential to be very good: KAT, Zach, Belly, Rudez & Martin. I also think Wiggins can be a decent 3-point shooter. Even Rubio has shown that the one shooting skill he might be able to develop is his three point set shot.

[Porckchop]

I certainly don't visit these boards with the expectation that everyone agrees with my opinions. In fact I feel like I learn more from hearing opposing views . I hope no one here feels like I belittle their opinions by disagreeing with them. It would make for a shitty board if we all agreed all the time and patted each other on the backs .

[SameOldNudityDrew]

I certainly don't visit these boards with the expectation that everyone agrees with my opinions. In fact I feel like I learn more from hearing opposing views . I hope no one here feels like I belittle their opinions by disagreeing with them. It would make for a shitty board if we all agreed all the time and patted each other on the backs .

Agreed! :) To me though, it's not so much about agreeing or disagreeing, but HOW people agree or disagree. Both agreements and disagreements can lead to constructive discussion, but when disagreements in particular descend into arguments the conversation is rarely constructive. People start cherry-picking evidence, misinterpreting what other people write, and making broad generalizations and absolute claims. It's like the basketball doesn't matter as much as being right and proving the other person wrong. That isn't helpful, and it's not why I come here. I know I'm not immune, but it happens too often on the board for my taste. We all bring something unique to the table, but guys like Tim model the kind of respect for others' opinions I think we should all share because we are all actually pretty smart about basketball. Except SJM, who is always totally wrong about everything. :)