Would u ...

[Monster]

I want to add to this conversation that I think it's a shame that MJ gets painted as a selfish pure scorer. It really isn't true. MJ was a master at involving teammates and then taking over at the right times. He didn't do that right out of the gate but he was also a pretty good passer.

Can't we just enjoy Lebron and Curry and also remembering other player's greatness? Lebron is a terrific player and has been for years now although he has evolved some Curry is just growing into what he is and may become. Both guys are fun as heck to watch.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I want to add to this conversation that I think it's a shame that MJ gets painted as a selfish pure scorer. It really isn't true. MJ was a master at involving teammates and then taking over at the right times. He didn't do that right out of the gate but he was also a pretty good passer.

Can't we just enjoy Lebron and Curry and also remembering other player's greatness? Lebron is a terrific player and has been for years now although he has evolved some Curry is just growing into what he is and may become. Both guys are fun as heck to watch.

I don't disagree with anything you wrote. But that's the thing.

Has anybody indicated they don't agree?

[Monster]

I want to add to this conversation that I think it's a shame that MJ gets painted as a selfish pure scorer. It really isn't true. MJ was a master at involving teammates and then taking over at the right times. He didn't do that right out of the gate but he was also a pretty good passer.

Can't we just enjoy Lebron and Curry and also remembering other player's greatness? Lebron is a terrific player and has been for years now although he has evolved some Curry is just growing into what he is and may become. Both guys are fun as heck to watch.

I don't disagree with anything you wrote. But that's the thing.

Has anybody indicated they don't agree?

Thanks Abe I guess I should clarify my post was in response probably more than this thread to some of the narratives either on message boards or nationally in general. Carry on.

[Porckchop]

If Curry shoots 11/35 his team is gonna lose becuz he doesn't affect the game significantly in any other category. LeBron can shoot 11/35 and do so many other things to determine the outcome.

[mrhockey89]

I don't think the playoffs tells us anything to be true when it comes to point guards. I heard someone say that on TV the other day and I immediately started thinking about examples suggesting otherwise such as Tony Allen. The Cavs won game 2 after their scoring PG went on the IR in game 1. In fact, I'd argue that Ricky is better than half of the PGs that were in the conference finals games. (WCF+ECF).

Maestro is another way of saying conductor...someone who can run the offense the way it's supposed to be run. You might be able to get stats out of another PG, but that doesn't mean you'll get impact. You get impact with Rubio. He does a lot of things that don't show up in the stat sheet, and I can elaborate if you're not able to see it.

When people trash Rubio, it's for 1 thing. Shooting. On the flip side, I can name several things that he does at a premier level. And ultimately, it should always come down to how well is your team with a guy on the court vs how they are without them on the court. So you go ahead and take your 12 ppg 5 ast replacement that costs us team efficiency, and I'll a PG who takes under 10 shots a game while making the players who are paid to score better.

And ur dismissING the amount of time he misses on the court. He's missed as much time as Pek . Should that just be dismissed? Shooting is not his only weakness. Actually playing is.

So then would it be safe for me to say you wouldn't even consider trading Rubio for Derrick Rose, since Rose is about as injury prone as it gets and doesn't care much about basketball, yeah?

[mrhockey89]

Yes. I remember that game distinctly too... for very different reasons.

Westbrook was bashed by most on this forum after that game. Rubio was praised. I was ripped when I wrote something about Westbrook forcing his will on that game and being the difference. For the next week, it was pretty rough to entertain (publicly) the thought that Westbrook was still at that time better than Rubio... if for nothing else, being the force of nature that he is.

Westbrook: 28 points (10 - 21) / 6 reb / 6 ast / 7 TOs
Rubio: 6 points (2 - 3 fg) / 5 reb / 6ast / 0 TOs

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201112260MIN.html

By the way, check out that all-promise team. Wes Johnson. Michael Beasley (27 shots!) and Derrick Williams. Oh, and Rubio, of course. Remember when that team was supposed to be the one to get us over the hump?


[Note: There was a definite buzz in that game with Rubio's arrival. And play. He played well. But so did Westbrook in his own very Westbrookian way... despite what all those posts at the time would have you believe.]

My response to this is that Westbrook was already a known quantity/star on the rise and it should be no surprise that he would do well. Same with Durant.

For Rubio, his stats definitely didn't tell the story of that game for him, and in addition, they usually don't for a guy like that. He's a guy who won't get an assist simply because he passed at the right time to make the best play, even when it doesn't net him an assist. For example..if JJ Barea has a 6 assist game and Rubio has a 6 assist game, Rubio probably had twice the impact as JJ in terms of running the offense and getting teammates involved, but didn't get credit for the hockey assist, or for getting it to the player in position to draw the foul, or head manning the ball to a guy on a break well before it'll get him an assist stat. That first game was an ideal example of that.

And as further proof of how good Rubio actually DOES make his teammates, he's the guy who made Derrick Williams look like he belongs...the minute Rubio got injured or left the court, Williams positives all disappeared.

[mrhockey89]

Curry didn't really explode in the league though his first couple years in the league. He was slowly taking over from Monta Ellis. Rubio didn't come over for 2 years, and Rubio did burst onto the scene his rookie year in the NBA if you recall. I remember being at Rubio's 1st game in a sold out Target Center against the Western Conference champion full strength OKC Thunder and Rubio being an absolute maestro as he torched the Thunder's defense left and right, only to come up short because of a missed call on a layup at the buzzer where the Thunder got away with a foul at the rim and won by 1. Kobe ended that great rookie season for Ricky.

Just going off memory bank though, didn't Curry come off an injury before he got paid? He's twice the player now he was back then.

I don't see why everyone tries to go out of their way to bash Rubio no this board. He's our best veteran player when he's healthy. His on/off court numbers are very revealing. Is it because he's our one trade asset that holds potentially significant value besides Wiggins or #1? I'd be careful what I wish for.

Do you mean that averaging 17.5 ppg, 6 ast, 4.5 rpg, and 2 spg while shooting 46% (with 1/3 of them being 3's) is not "breaking into the league"? Would anyone take a rookie Curry over what we have in Rubio now? I would.

Oh, and I wouldn't trade LBJ for anyone.

Curious...what were Ellis's stats at the time? And how many extra possessions did the Warriors have every game? It was basically a team that was built for stat padding. No offense to Curry, because those are solid numbers all the way around, but I don't think too many people had Curry as a future MVP candidate after his first couple years in the league.

[mrhockey89]

I don't think Curry could do what LeBron is doing, however I don't think LeBron would be enough of an upgrade the way Golden State is built that they'd be interested in trading Curry for LeBron....and here's why..

1. LeBron is 30, Curry is 27. Curry is, believe it or not, still getting better.
2. Curry is a perfect fit on a team like Golden State. And they have the absolute perfect guy for substituting LeBron in Iggy. Iggy isn't LeBron but he's a fantastic 2 way alternative that helps you get away with picking Curry.
3. Salaries: Curry makes like $10.6 mil for the next 2 years, an absolute bargain. LeBron is making about $20.6 and is about to hit a massive free agency period and get paid even more.

Now...I don't think Cleveland would trade LeBron for Curry, but I don't think GS trades Curry for LeBron either.