Revisiting the Kevin Love trade one year later

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

I just hope Wiggins, Towns and co. can eventually get this team to the playoffs. I'd enjoy seeing a playoff series with Minnesota in it. You know... because that hasn't happened in 11 years.

Would you trade a little short term success against long term contention? To my eyes the playoffs are only fun when you believe the team has a chance to win.

There's not just one way to get there though. Look at the Mavericks. They were a perennial playoff team who could never win it and then in 2011 they finally rounded out the roster with role players and everything broke their way. The Pistons went to the ECF like 7 straight years and won 1 title. People seem to think the only way teams get there are to draft 2-3 superstars and call it a day. Look at GS. They acquired Iggy, Bogut and Lee to help them win the title as vital pieces. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

[Shumway]

At the risk of being a sycophant here, I think this is some great basketball discussion. Kahns, you say that your opinion doesn't matter on who won the trade, and that we're only dealing on hypotheticals. But that is exactly what makes great discussions - opinions and what ifs. So keep all the opinions and perspectives coming. I enjoy reading them.

With hypotheticals, there are so many permutations for what would have been (Wiggins development, lottery position, Love staying healthy etc). Really interesting reading the differences in opinions and how we all place different weighting on different aspects - current production vs potential.

Go Wiggins, Go Wolves.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

At the risk of being a sycophant here, I think this is some great basketball discussion. Kahns, you say that your opinion doesn't matter on who won the trade, and that we're only dealing on hypotheticals. But that is exactly what makes great discussions - opinions and what ifs. So keep all the opinions and perspectives coming. I enjoy reading them.

With hypotheticals, there are so many permutations for what would have been (Wiggins development, lottery position, Love staying healthy etc). Really interesting reading the differences in opinions and how we all place different weighting on different aspects - current production vs potential.

Go Wiggins, Go Wolves.

I meant to convey my thoughts on who I would rather have between the two doesn't matter in the grander scheme of who won the trade same as anyone else. Who we all would rather have doesn't decide who wins the trade. The move is done so all that's left is the on-court performance and Love was better in year 1 on a better team. That's why, right now, we haven't "won" the trade. People are handing us the win already just based on what Wiggins might become and how they like him and the current path of the organization better than Love and where we would be with him. To me none of that is a factor in which team beat the other in the trade. Results are what decide trade winners and so far we're 0-1 in the yearly winning column of the trade. I don't believe and have never said we lost the trade just to be clear. I just firmly believe it's premature to declare us the winners already. There's still a lot of basketball left to be played to decide the overall winner.

[Monster]

OJ for Love turned out to be pretty good, but Love for Wiggins will turn out to be a grand slam home run.

OJ is at best a rotation bench player and Love became one of the best scorers and rebounders in the league as a Wolf. How was that not a grand slam home run?

Sidenote: We traded Love for Wiggins so... :)

Wiggins has a much higher ceiling than Love. Love is a one way player who never got us to the playoffs. He kept us in the middle which is the worst place for a franchise to be stuck. Its all good now though.

I think you miss the point. We traded for Love who was/is a very good player plus we got Miller who was half of Rubio for a bench player at best in Mayo. If that's not a fleecing I don't know what is. The sad thing is we continued to suck and the Grizz despite botching another top 5 pick in Thabeet went on to be contenders.

[TeamRicky [enjin:6648771]]

You

OJ for Love turned out to be pretty good, but Love for Wiggins will turn out to be a grand slam home run.

OJ is at best a rotation bench player and Love became one of the best scorers and rebounders in the league as a Wolf. How was that not a grand slam home run?

Sidenote: We traded Love for Wiggins so... :)

Wiggins has a much higher ceiling than Love. Love is a one way player who never got us to the playoffs. He kept us in the middle which is the worst place for a franchise to be stuck. Its all good now though.

I think you miss the point. We traded for Love who was/is a very good player plus we got Miller who was half of Rubio for a bench player at best in Mayo. If that's not a fleecing I don't know what is. The sad thing is we continued to suck and the Grizz despite botching another top 5 pick in Thabeet went on to be contenders.

OJ wasn't as bad as "a bench player at best". He didn't live up to his predraft hype but he was a decent rotation player until he got fat. Maybe we still end up with Rubio even if we didn't get Miller--that we will never know (but I view that as a separate trade and one of the better ones this organization has made). I don't care if you disagree with me, but I like the Love for Wiggins trade better than any this organization has made.

[Coolbreeze44]

At the risk of being a sycophant here, I think this is some great basketball discussion. Kahns, you say that your opinion doesn't matter on who won the trade, and that we're only dealing on hypotheticals. But that is exactly what makes great discussions - opinions and what ifs. So keep all the opinions and perspectives coming. I enjoy reading them.

With hypotheticals, there are so many permutations for what would have been (Wiggins development, lottery position, Love staying healthy etc). Really interesting reading the differences in opinions and how we all place different weighting on different aspects - current production vs potential.

Go Wiggins, Go Wolves.

Welcome to the best basketball message board you can access. This forum is filled with quality posters who really know what they are talking about. It only gets better during the season.

[Monster]

You

OJ for Love turned out to be pretty good, but Love for Wiggins will turn out to be a grand slam home run.

OJ is at best a rotation bench player and Love became one of the best scorers and rebounders in the league as a Wolf. How was that not a grand slam home run?

Sidenote: We traded Love for Wiggins so... :)

Wiggins has a much higher ceiling than Love. Love is a one way player who never got us to the playoffs. He kept us in the middle which is the worst place for a franchise to be stuck. Its all good now though.

I think you miss the point. We traded for Love who was/is a very good player plus we got Miller who was half of Rubio for a bench player at best in Mayo. If that's not a fleecing I don't know what is. The sad thing is we continued to suck and the Grizz despite botching another top 5 pick in Thabeet went on to be contenders.

OJ wasn't as bad as "a bench player at best". He didn't live up to his predraft hype but he was a decent rotation player until he got fat. Maybe we still end up with Rubio even if we didn't get Miller--that we will never know (but I view that as a separate trade and one of the better ones this organization has made). I don't care if you disagree with me, but I like the Love for Wiggins trade better than any this organization has made.

Well Mayo isn't good now (and hasn't been for years) and Love might be a HOF player. Until a few months ago teams were still trying to sign Miller so either way Miller was an additional asset either on the floor or in a trade.

I get your point if Wiggins becomes a transformative type player then it's tough to best that trade but that Love Miller for OJ trade was a terrible one for Memphis and for various reasons it's one that isn't talked about as one of the worst NBA trades in the past 20 years but it probably should. Lol

[thedoper]

Isn't deciding who won the trade easy? Just ask how many GM's would make the same trade the Cavs did today. I am guessing not that many.

[TAFKASP]

I just hope Wiggins, Towns and co. can eventually get this team to the playoffs. I'd enjoy seeing a playoff series with Minnesota in it. You know... because that hasn't happened in 11 years.

Would you trade a little short term success against long term contention? To my eyes the playoffs are only fun when you believe the team has a chance to win.

There's not just one way to get there though. Look at the Mavericks. They were a perennial playoff team who could never win it and then in 2011 they finally rounded out the roster with role players and everything broke their way. The Pistons went to the ECF like 7 straight years and won 1 title. People seem to think the only way teams get there are to draft 2-3 superstars and call it a day. Look at GS. They acquired Iggy, Bogut and Lee to help them win the title as vital pieces. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

The difference between the Mavs, the Warriors, and the Wolves is the former both had their star leader type player(s) and filled out the roster with complimentary pieces. The Wolves had Love who is a great complimentary piece but still needed that alpha dog.

Love was not going to attract top level talent to Minnesota, yet he along with Pek, Martin, and Rubio were unlikely to be bad enough to position the Wolves to draft such a player. The realistic outlook for that team was fringe playoff team with the distant outside chance they pull a Mavs and piece together a team to make a run.

The general rule in the NBA is you don't trade a star because you never get one back. I think we can all agree that the Wolves dodged that bullet in getting Wiggins for Love. I personally like the chances of this core to eventually win a championship far more than I did the Love lead core.

I'll happily suffer a few extra years of building if what they are building is a championship contender, not an 8th seed contender.

Edit: And for the record, it doesn't hurt any that Love is such an unloveable personality while Wiggins, Towns, Rubio, and the rest appear to be solid human beings!

[Coolbreeze44]

I just hope Wiggins, Towns and co. can eventually get this team to the playoffs. I'd enjoy seeing a playoff series with Minnesota in it. You know... because that hasn't happened in 11 years.

Would you trade a little short term success against long term contention? To my eyes the playoffs are only fun when you believe the team has a chance to win.

There's not just one way to get there though. Look at the Mavericks. They were a perennial playoff team who could never win it and then in 2011 they finally rounded out the roster with role players and everything broke their way. The Pistons went to the ECF like 7 straight years and won 1 title. People seem to think the only way teams get there are to draft 2-3 superstars and call it a day. Look at GS. They acquired Iggy, Bogut and Lee to help them win the title as vital pieces. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

The difference between the Mavs, the Warriors, and the Wolves is the former both had their star leader type player(s) and filled out the roster with complimentary pieces. The Wolves had Love who is a great complimentary piece but still needed that alpha dog.

Love was not going to attract top level talent to Minnesota, yet he along with Pek, Martin, and Rubio were unlikely to be bad enough to position the Wolves to draft such a player. The realistic outlook for that team was fringe playoff team with the distant outside chance they pull a Mavs and piece together a team to make a run.

The general rule in the NBA is you don't trade a star because you never get one back. I think we can all agree that the Wolves dodged that bullet in getting Wiggins for Love. I personally like the chances of this core to eventually win a championship far more than I did the Love lead core.

I'll happily suffer a few extra years of building if what they are building is a championship contender, not an 8th seed contender.

Edit: And for the record, it doesn't hurt any that Love is such an unloveable personality while Wiggins, Towns, Rubio, and the rest appear to be solid human beings!

Excellent post SP, I think you summarize my own feelings pretty well here. Yet it's interesting a significant faction of this board, and I'm assuming the general fan base as well, was okay with simply making the playoffs and hoping to catch lightning in a bottle. To me it's all about contending for a title. I think hovering around the 7-8 seed is a waste of time. I'll gladly wait until this rebuild takes it's course to see what happens.