FIBA qualifying Bennett hype Thread

[Carlos Danger]

"motor", "fire" "heart"....what sort of metrics or devices are we using to measure these things? Is Wiggins heart two sizes too small like the Grinch? I have to believe the medical staff would have caught that in the pre-draft physical.

Hey, anything is possible. Perhaps with the new facility Flip installed, they can find out these things!

But actually, no miracle of modern medicine is needed. The things people are questioning are easily observed by how he plays. How hard does he run? How many charges does he take? How low of a stance does he get into defensively? Does he get back quickly off missed shots? Does he dive for loose balls? Does he win 50/50 balls?.

Interesting. I would bet that scouts, GMs and Coaches look at that stuff too. Would it be possible they have better eyes/evaluation skills than some on here? Because Wiggins was the #1 overall pick in the draft and pretty much a consensus #1 at that. If any of the things you listed were big concerns....wouldn't that have affected his draft status?

Also...guys like Corey Brewer get praised for going "all out" or "lunch pail" guys. But isn't there an advantage to playing under control in basketball? Because watching Brewer play....it seemed like for every great, hustle play - he would make a corresponding poor play by being out of control.

Finally, would you agree that being bench player/low minute guy - it would be easier to go 100 mph during your 10 minutes/game. But when you are one of the few threats on the team and need to log 35ish a game, then isn't it better to avoid stupid fouls and stay on the floor? Is that playing without fire? Or is that playing smart and doing what the team needs by avoiding foul trouble by being too aggressive?

[Monster]

All this talk made me look up MJ's college stats and then I looked at his NBA stats and once again I found a extremely high appreciation for what he did in his career. Over 30ppg for his career and that 7 season stretch where he averaged over 30ppg every year and averaged almost 3 steals a game over that time and he played nearly 40 mpg and only missed a couple of games. Unbelievable 2-way player but so was Pippen. The bottom line is you need talent to win a championship in the NBA and sometimes that isn't even good enough. Ask the Jazz.

Wiggins has done enough or not showed enough to have a legit worry or conversation about whether or not he has that whatever it is that could hold it back. I think of some posters qualified that a little more that they love what they see out of him but they worry because they want more it might make people's brains less likely to explode. The reality is everyone here loves wiggins and think he is going to be a terrific player. The worry is he won't peak out. I am not worried I saw too much good from him and too much of him that showed a very high IQ aspect for him just to meh out. He has no physical limits like say a Kevin Love and his ball Handling and shooting seems likely enough to improve enough it won't hold him back either. I tend to think Wiggins is going to be just fine. We are all hoping for the best.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

"motor", "fire" "heart"....what sort of metrics or devices are we using to measure these things? Is Wiggins heart two sizes too small like the Grinch? I have to believe the medical staff would have caught that in the pre-draft physical.

Hey, anything is possible. Perhaps with the new facility Flip installed, they can find out these things!

But actually, no miracle of modern medicine is needed. The things people are questioning are easily observed by how he plays. How hard does he run? How many charges does he take? How low of a stance does he get into defensively? Does he get back quickly off missed shots? Does he dive for loose balls? Does he win 50/50 balls?.

Interesting. I would bet that scouts, GMs and Coaches look at that stuff too. Would it be possible they have better eyes/evaluation skills than some on here? Because Wiggins was the #1 overall pick in the draft and pretty much a consensus #1 at that. If any of the things you listed were big concerns....wouldn't that have affected his draft status?

Also...guys like Corey Brewer get praised for going "all out" or "lunch pail" guys. But isn't there an advantage to playing under control in basketball? Because watching Brewer play....it seemed like for every great, hustle play - he would make a corresponding poor play by being out of control.

Finally, would you agree that being bench player/low minute guy - it would be easier to go 100 mph during your 10 minutes/game. But when you are one of the few threats on the team and need to log 35ish a game, then isn't it better to avoid stupid fouls and stay on the floor? Is that playing without fire? Or is that playing smart and doing what the team needs by avoiding foul trouble by being too aggressive?

First off, you conveniently left off the part where I clearly stated I didn't expect him to be the next Dennis Rodman in terms of hustle, so I will repost what I wrote:

I don't think he has to be the next Bobby Jones (or Jerry Sloan or Dennis Rodman or Tyler Hansborough or...fill in the blank with your favorite high-energy lunchpail player), as those guys didn't need to score 20+ PPG.

What I said is I would like to see more of the "5th gear Wiggins" beyond dunks.

Second, no one here is denying the very traits that made him the #1 pick: Elite athleticism, prototype wing length, promising jumper, high character. Almost all #1 picks have some flaw or flaws and Andrew is no different. Nothing I am saying detracts from those other strengths. The question is how far can he take these gifts?

And lastly, this isn't something that I'm just pulling out of thin air for the sake of giving Wiggins a hard time. Here are excerpts from various scouting reports on him prior to being drafted:

"To reach his full potential, NBA teams will want to see Wiggins become more aggressive with the way he approaches the game." - Draft Express

"The biggest issue is whether or not Wiggins has the mental make up to maximize his immense physical gifts. While some scouts are extremely high on him, there are just as many that question his focus and passion for the game." - NBAdraft.net

"A common critique of Andrew Wiggins has been that he is plays too passively, as he is not dominating nearly as much as projected. It could be counter argued that he playing within himself and merely needs more time to develop before taking the world by storm with his basketball abilities. My impression from watching him play has been that the former is the case." - Deanondraft

I think one big-time positive is how strong Wiggins took the ball to the hoop and tried to dunk as the season wore on. We did not see that often at Kansas or the first part of the NBA season. It somewhat addresses the "passivity" concerns some have voiced. But still, someone with his immense athleticism and upside leaves one wanting for more.

[mjs34]

"motor", "fire" "heart"....what sort of metrics or devices are we using to measure these things? Is Wiggins heart two sizes too small like the Grinch? I have to believe the medical staff would have caught that in the pre-draft physical.

Hey, anything is possible. Perhaps with the new facility Flip installed, they can find out these things!

But actually, no miracle of modern medicine is needed. The things people are questioning are easily observed by how he plays. How hard does he run? How many charges does he take? How low of a stance does he get into defensively? Does he get back quickly off missed shots? Does he dive for loose balls? Does he win 50/50 balls?.

Interesting. I would bet that scouts, GMs and Coaches look at that stuff too. Would it be possible they have better eyes/evaluation skills than some on here? Because Wiggins was the #1 overall pick in the draft and pretty much a consensus #1 at that. If any of the things you listed were big concerns....wouldn't that have affected his draft status?

Also...guys like Corey Brewer get praised for going "all out" or "lunch pail" guys. But isn't there an advantage to playing under control in basketball? Because watching Brewer play....it seemed like for every great, hustle play - he would make a corresponding poor play by being out of control.

Finally, would you agree that being bench player/low minute guy - it would be easier to go 100 mph during your 10 minutes/game. But when you are one of the few threats on the team and need to log 35ish a game, then isn't it better to avoid stupid fouls and stay on the floor? Is that playing without fire? Or is that playing smart and doing what the team needs by avoiding foul trouble by being too aggressive?

I found it interesting that Corey is called an "all out" guy, when I saw anything but from him. He was all out on fastbreaks, and lazy as hell getting back on D. Then when on D he would sell out for the steal rather than spending the energy to stay in front of his man. He reminded me of Thad on the defensive end. That is how guys pad their stats by the way.

I can understand the questions on Wiggins motor, but I think it has more to do with facial expressions, and not being completely comfortable with the NBA game yet. I am sure his body and maturity have a lot to do with it as well. We'll just have to wait and see as he gains more experience over the next couple of seasons. I think him coming in to camp knowing that the team is looking to him will make it easier to prepare. He was thrown to the wolves last season.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

"motor", "fire" "heart"....what sort of metrics or devices are we using to measure these things? Is Wiggins heart two sizes too small like the Grinch? I have to believe the medical staff would have caught that in the pre-draft physical.

Hey, anything is possible. Perhaps with the new facility Flip installed, they can find out these things!

But actually, no miracle of modern medicine is needed. The things people are questioning are easily observed by how he plays. How hard does he run? How many charges does he take? How low of a stance does he get into defensively? Does he get back quickly off missed shots? Does he dive for loose balls? Does he win 50/50 balls?.

Interesting. I would bet that scouts, GMs and Coaches look at that stuff too. Would it be possible they have better eyes/evaluation skills than some on here? Because Wiggins was the #1 overall pick in the draft and pretty much a consensus #1 at that. If any of the things you listed were big concerns....wouldn't that have affected his draft status?

Also...guys like Corey Brewer get praised for going "all out" or "lunch pail" guys. But isn't there an advantage to playing under control in basketball? Because watching Brewer play....it seemed like for every great, hustle play - he would make a corresponding poor play by being out of control.

Finally, would you agree that being bench player/low minute guy - it would be easier to go 100 mph during your 10 minutes/game. But when you are one of the few threats on the team and need to log 35ish a game, then isn't it better to avoid stupid fouls and stay on the floor? Is that playing without fire? Or is that playing smart and doing what the team needs by avoiding foul trouble by being too aggressive?

I found it interesting that Corey is called an "all out" guy, when I saw anything but from him. He was all out on fastbreaks, and lazy as hell getting back on D. Then when on D he would sell out for the steal rather than spending the energy to stay in front of his man. He reminded me of Thad on the defensive end. That is how guys pad their stats by the way.

I can understand the questions on Wiggins motor, but I think it has more to do with facial expressions, and not being completely comfortable with the NBA game yet. I am sure his body and maturity have a lot to do with it as well. We'll just have to wait and see as he gains more experience over the next couple of seasons. I think him coming in to camp knowing that the team is looking to him will make it easier to prepare. He was thrown to the wolves last season.

I think Corey Brewer may have been cited as a guy that ran the floor hard on fastbreaks - even ones that he wasn't cherrypicking - not the guy I'd recommend Wiggins patterns his entire game after. Jeez, context people!

[mjs34]

First off, you conveniently left off the part where I clearly stated I didn't expect him to be the next Dennis Rodman in terms of hustle, so I will repost what I wrote:

I don't think he has to be the next Bobby Jones (or Jerry Sloan or Dennis Rodman or Tyler Hansborough or...fill in the blank with your favorite high-energy lunchpail player), as those guys didn't need to score 20+ PPG.

What I said is I would like to see more of the "5th gear Wiggins" beyond dunks.

Second, no one here is denying the very traits that made him the #1 pick: Elite athleticism, prototype wing length, promising jumper, high character. Almost all #1 picks have some flaw or flaws and Andrew is no different. Nothing I am saying detracts from those other strengths. The question is how far can he take these gifts?

And lastly, this isn't something that I'm just pulling out of thin air for the sake of giving Wiggins a hard time. Here are excerpts from various scouting reports on him prior to being drafted:

"To reach his full potential, NBA teams will want to see Wiggins become more aggressive with the way he approaches the game." - Draft Express

"The biggest issue is whether or not Wiggins has the mental make up to maximize his immense physical gifts. While some scouts are extremely high on him, there are just as many that question his focus and passion for the game." - NBAdraft.net

"A common critique of Andrew Wiggins has been that he is plays too passively, as he is not dominating nearly as much as projected. It could be counter argued that he playing within himself and merely needs more time to develop before taking the world by storm with his basketball abilities. My impression from watching him play has been that the former is the case." - Deanondraft

I think one big-time positive is how strong Wiggins took the ball to the hoop and tried to dunk as the season wore on. We did not see that often at Kansas or the first part of the NBA season. It somewhat addresses the "passivity" concerns some have voiced. But still, someone with his immense athleticism and upside leaves one wanting for more.

Q, what really jumps out at me is his scoring in the second half of the season. If that is being passive as a rookie, get me five of those guys. I think how easily he tends to score makes many think he is being passive, when I think he was just playing within the offense. I don't remember MJ or Kobe or Lebron flying up and down the court. Harden, Curry, Wade, etc. all made their mark by scoring in the half court sets, and all had to find their way. Wade didn't have a particularly great handle and didn't shoot well, and he came in quite a bit older than AW.

Nothing wrong with discussing these things, but I think more time will alleviate many of these concerns.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

First off, you conveniently left off the part where I clearly stated I didn't expect him to be the next Dennis Rodman in terms of hustle, so I will repost what I wrote:

I don't think he has to be the next Bobby Jones (or Jerry Sloan or Dennis Rodman or Tyler Hansborough or...fill in the blank with your favorite high-energy lunchpail player), as those guys didn't need to score 20+ PPG.

What I said is I would like to see more of the "5th gear Wiggins" beyond dunks.

Second, no one here is denying the very traits that made him the #1 pick: Elite athleticism, prototype wing length, promising jumper, high character. Almost all #1 picks have some flaw or flaws and Andrew is no different. Nothing I am saying detracts from those other strengths. The question is how far can he take these gifts?

And lastly, this isn't something that I'm just pulling out of thin air for the sake of giving Wiggins a hard time. Here are excerpts from various scouting reports on him prior to being drafted:

"To reach his full potential, NBA teams will want to see Wiggins become more aggressive with the way he approaches the game." - Draft Express

"The biggest issue is whether or not Wiggins has the mental make up to maximize his immense physical gifts. While some scouts are extremely high on him, there are just as many that question his focus and passion for the game." - NBAdraft.net

"A common critique of Andrew Wiggins has been that he is plays too passively, as he is not dominating nearly as much as projected. It could be counter argued that he playing within himself and merely needs more time to develop before taking the world by storm with his basketball abilities. My impression from watching him play has been that the former is the case." - Deanondraft

I think one big-time positive is how strong Wiggins took the ball to the hoop and tried to dunk as the season wore on. We did not see that often at Kansas or the first part of the NBA season. It somewhat addresses the "passivity" concerns some have voiced. But still, someone with his immense athleticism and upside leaves one wanting for more.

Q, what really jumps out at me is his scoring in the second half of the season. If that is being passive as a rookie, get me five of those guys. I think how easily he tends to score makes many think he is being passive, when I think he was just playing within the offense. I don't remember MJ or Kobe or Lebron flying up and down the court. Harden, Curry, Wade, etc. all made their mark by scoring in the half court sets, and all had to find their way. Wade didn't have a particularly great handle and didn't shoot well, and he came in quite a bit older than AW.

Nothing wrong with discussing these things, but I think more time will alleviate many of these concerns.

I think he could make his life on offense a bit easier if he did run the floor harder in transition. He'd get a lot more uncontested layups and dunks. I would also like to see him get into a lower defensive stance and fight harder to get over screens (of course, I could say that about all of our guards and wings - they collectively suck at it). He was also a fairly anemic rebounder for a starting SF, especially given his length and hops.

He definitely turned things around in terms of aggressiveness going toward the hoop. Hopefully we see improvement in these other areas as well.

[mjs34]

Q, what really jumps out at me is his scoring in the second half of the season. If that is being passive as a rookie, get me five of those guys. I think how easily he tends to score makes many think he is being passive, when I think he was just playing within the offense. I don't remember MJ or Kobe or Lebron flying up and down the court. Harden, Curry, Wade, etc. all made their mark by scoring in the half court sets, and all had to find their way. Wade didn't have a particularly great handle and didn't shoot well, and he came in quite a bit older than AW.

Nothing wrong with discussing these things, but I think more time will alleviate many of these concerns.

I think he could make his life on offense a bit easier if he did run the floor harder in transition. He'd get a lot more uncontested layups and dunks. I would also like to see him get into a lower defensive stance and fight harder to get over screens (of course, I could say that about all of our guards and wings - they collectively suck at it). He was also a fairly anemic rebounder for a starting SF, especially given his length and hops.

He definitely turned things around in terms of aggressiveness going toward the hoop. Hopefully we see improvement in these other areas as well.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

First off, you conveniently left off the part where I clearly stated I didn't expect him to be the next Dennis Rodman in terms of hustle, so I will repost what I wrote:

I don't think he has to be the next Bobby Jones (or Jerry Sloan or Dennis Rodman or Tyler Hansborough or...fill in the blank with your favorite high-energy lunchpail player), as those guys didn't need to score 20+ PPG.

What I said is I would like to see more of the "5th gear Wiggins" beyond dunks.

Second, no one here is denying the very traits that made him the #1 pick: Elite athleticism, prototype wing length, promising jumper, high character. Almost all #1 picks have some flaw or flaws and Andrew is no different. Nothing I am saying detracts from those other strengths. The question is how far can he take these gifts?

And lastly, this isn't something that I'm just pulling out of thin air for the sake of giving Wiggins a hard time. Here are excerpts from various scouting reports on him prior to being drafted:

"To reach his full potential, NBA teams will want to see Wiggins become more aggressive with the way he approaches the game." - Draft Express

"The biggest issue is whether or not Wiggins has the mental make up to maximize his immense physical gifts. While some scouts are extremely high on him, there are just as many that question his focus and passion for the game." - NBAdraft.net

"A common critique of Andrew Wiggins has been that he is plays too passively, as he is not dominating nearly as much as projected. It could be counter argued that he playing within himself and merely needs more time to develop before taking the world by storm with his basketball abilities. My impression from watching him play has been that the former is the case." - Deanondraft

I think one big-time positive is how strong Wiggins took the ball to the hoop and tried to dunk as the season wore on. We did not see that often at Kansas or the first part of the NBA season. It somewhat addresses the "passivity" concerns some have voiced. But still, someone with his immense athleticism and upside leaves one wanting for more.

Q, what really jumps out at me is his scoring in the second half of the season. If that is being passive as a rookie, get me five of those guys. I think how easily he tends to score makes many think he is being passive, when I think he was just playing within the offense. I don't remember MJ or Kobe or Lebron flying up and down the court. Harden, Curry, Wade, etc. all made their mark by scoring in the half court sets, and all had to find their way. Wade didn't have a particularly great handle and didn't shoot well, and he came in quite a bit older than AW.

Nothing wrong with discussing these things, but I think more time will alleviate many of these concerns.

I think he could make his life on offense a bit easier if he did run the floor harder in transition. He'd get a lot more uncontested layups and dunks. I would also like to see him get into a lower defensive stance and fight harder to get over screens (of course, I could say that about all of our guards and wings - they collectively suck at it). He was also a fairly anemic rebounder for a starting SF, especially given his length and hops.

He definitely turned things around in terms of aggressiveness going toward the hoop. Hopefully we see improvement in these other areas as well.

Again, he was 19, it's an 82 game season and his body isn't developed yet to handle that physical load and you wanted him to exert even more physical energy on the court when he already ran out during the season last year when he was playing 40 MPG's at the end. The scouting reports no longer matter because he's in the league. We can see him as a player first hand at this level. It's just not reasonable to expect a guy playing 36 MPG's to be in 5th gear more often when he's 19 and not conditioned for the league yet. He went from 35 games and 1148 minutes his year in college to 82 games and 2969 minutes the next year in the pro's. And at the end of the day his stats were almost identical from the college level to the pros and considering the jump in talent between those levels, that's impressive. Your questioning his motor saying he didn't show you the 5th gear enough to prove he has the motor, but frankly he just wasn't conditioned enough to do that so seeing him show the motor in close games should be enough to know he has it. He just didn't have the conditioning to show it as often as you'd like. I guess you would have preferred he be a corpse at the end of last year just to show his motor runs higher.

[Monster]

I'll take a fun jab at Q for wanting Wiggins to rebound better AND sprint down the court to get easy baskets. :)