Wolves vs. Utah - Where They Allow muZach

[Hicks123 [enjin:6700838]]

Yeah a 7 footer blocking a guards shot, whoever thought that could happen?

Sometimes, I think you work far too hard to incite negative responses.

Just tired of the attitude that our players suck, and everybody else's are better for no other reason that they play for somebody else.

How in the world do you get to that conclusion?

By the way, you realize the Wolves are 16 - 58, right?

How many players in the league would you trade Andrew Wiggins for?

Taking age and contracts into account... not very many. Off the top of my head, Anthony Davis is the only one I trade him for without blinking. But, what's your point?

Am I not allowed to write that an opposing player also shows a lot of promise or made a good play?

This is an interesting concept. The FACTS here are that Gobert has made a HUGE impact in terms of team defense, which has reflected very positively on the outcome of their record. Wiggins, while dominating minutes, has led the charge of a 16 win team. Not sure if I would state that there is only 1 or 2 guys that I would trade for. Seems perhaps the list should be substantially longer.

[Coolbreeze44]

Yeah a 7 footer blocking a guards shot, whoever thought that could happen?

Sometimes, I think you work far too hard to incite negative responses.

Just tired of the attitude that our players suck, and everybody else's are better for no other reason that they play for somebody else.

How in the world do you get to that conclusion?

By the way, you realize the Wolves are 16 - 58, right?

How many players in the league would you trade Andrew Wiggins for?

Taking age and contracts into account... not very many. Off the top of my head, Anthony Davis is the only one I trade him for without blinking. But, what's your point?

Am I not allowed to write that an opposing player also shows a lot of promise or made a good play?

This is an interesting concept. The FACTS here are that Gobert has made a HUGE impact in terms of team defense, which has reflected very positively on the outcome of their record. Wiggins, while dominating minutes, has led the charge of a 16 win team. Not sure if I would state that there is only 1 or 2 guys that I would trade for. Seems perhaps the list should be substantially longer.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Do you REALLY think the list should be a lot longer? Or are you just commenting in that manner because you want to bitch?

We have enough built in negativity, we don't need to manufacture more.

[Coolbreeze44]

Also, wasn't Gobert a part of that poorly performing group earlier in the year? I have no doubt his increased role has been a factor, but I'm not going to discount other factors. Factors such as overall team cohesion, and the role the coaches have had in turning things around. Gobert though impressive, is not the 2nd coming of Akeem Olajuwon

[kekgeek]

Also, wasn't Gobert a part of that poorly performing group earlier in the year? I have no doubt his increased role has been a factor, but I'm not going to discount other factors. Factors such as overall team cohesion, and the role the coaches have had in turning things around. Gobert though impressive, is not the 2nd coming of Akeem Olajuwon

Could be the 2nd coming of matumbo, though still rather have wiggins but they are both really promising players and both will be getting the max for years to come

[alexftbl8181 [enjin:6648741]]

We could of had both! Think of how good a Wiggins-Gobert-Lavine trio could of been for years? Instead we have a million big men, half are injured, and the other half suck, and are probably going to be drafting another one. Damn

[Hicks123 [enjin:6700838]]

Also, wasn't Gobert a part of that poorly performing group earlier in the year? I have no doubt his increased role has been a factor, but I'm not going to discount other factors. Factors such as overall team cohesion, and the role the coaches have had in turning things around. Gobert though impressive, is not the 2nd coming of Akeem Olajuwon

I will address both of your posts. First off, I want to state that I like Wiggins just fine. And my post wasn't meant to diminish the fact that he is a fine player. But I guess I have a different approach or opinion on him, at least at this point, than you and some others.

If you are simply asking if I would take ANY player in the NBA, then yes, the list of players I would trade for Wiggins is MUCH longer than just a few guys. Are you kidding me with this? While he may end up a good player, at this point, he is a one-dimensional scoring option. Anemic rebounder (45th at his position PER48), fairly pedestrian scoring efficiency, does nothing as a playmaker, and his "bread-and-butter" defense is simply not there with any consistency.
And again, despite being our 2nd leading scorer, he is not consistently the "best player on the floor" on any sort of consistent basis.

And let's go to Gobert and Utah. I am with you in that it is not ALL related to Gobert. First off, he certainly has a better team around him. But your comment about them being a "Poorly performing group earlier in year" is a bit off base. Not going to look up stats, but I believe I remember someone recently saying that they were 17th in NBA earlier in the season, and have been 1st over past couple months. In fact, pre-AS they were giving up a FG% of 44.8%, and are at 41.2% post-AS break. That is a MASSIVE change. These stats correspond with his increase in minutes. While Wiggins started the year getting 30+mpg, it took a while (and a trade) for Gobert to get the same minute production. But in those minutes, it is fairly evident to me that he has been a bigger singular factor compared directly to Wiggins.

Now, the argument is whether or not I trade Wiggins for a much larger list of players....my answer is an emphatic yes. But the more interesting question I would have to ask, just based on my narrative above, is if I would trade Wiggins for Gobert. And I would have to say an emphatic maybe. Even though Gobert may not be Hakeem....and even though he wasn't the #1 pick....and even though he is not on my team, I am not going to say I wouldn't trade him even up.

All that said, I like Wiggins. I just am not currently primed to put him as a "top 10 player" as many are. He certainly has the athleticism for it.....but skills.....not quite as sure.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

And Gobert's one skill is that he's long as fuck (blocked shots, rebounds and putbacks are because of this). You can find guys like Gobert in the late first / second round. It happens almost every year. You can't find 6'8 freaks like Wiggins. I like both players, but this is silly.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Cam, guys like Gobert don't come along every year, c'mon now. He's a game-changer defensively that no one could project at the time he was drafted. Yes, there have certainly been some solid Centers and even some real gems taken later in the first/early second (Pekovic and DeAndre Jordan come to mind). And we got a pretty serviceable big man ourselves in Dieng.

But Gobert's length is almost unheard of. A 9'7" standing reach is ridiculously long. Combine that with the fact he's actually pretty coordinated and aggressive and you have a defensive monster on your hands. And he's only 22, with plenty of room for further upside and growth, especially for a big man.

And for the record, I would not trade Wiggins for Gobert straight-up either, even though Hicksy makes some very valid points above.

[TheFuture]

Yeah a 7 footer blocking a guards shot, whoever thought that could happen?

Sometimes, I think you work far too hard to incite negative responses.

Just tired of the attitude that our players suck, and everybody else's are better for no other reason that they play for somebody else.

How in the world do you get to that conclusion?

By the way, you realize the Wolves are 16 - 58, right?

How many players in the league would you trade Andrew Wiggins for?

Westbook, Butler, Lillard, Thompson, Davis, Paul George, John Wall, Cousins, Kawhi Leonard, Harden. Give me any of those guys please. Wiggins may turn out great, while all of them are already there.

I'm not the biggest fan of Irving's or Hayward's defense, but they could also be in the mix.

[Hicks123 [enjin:6700838]]

And Gobert's one skill is that he's long as fuck (blocked shots, rebounds and putbacks are because of this). You can find guys like Gobert in the late first / second round. It happens almost every year. You can't find 6'8 freaks like Wiggins. I like both players, but this is silly.

Cam, who exactly are these players that show up every year? He is playing like a top 5 overall defensive player. You find moderately talented players like Dieng most years...but not defensive anchors. For a guy that has sold Towns in every thread for the past season as our defensive savior, I am surprised to hear this side from you. I think I would do back-flips if we take Towns and he shows the same type game in year 1. My opinion, but I just don't think he is same talent as what Gobert has shown this season. Again, just my opinion.

Oh, and good job pointing out the obvious advantages Gobert's size gives him. He uses them to their greatest effect. Wiggins? He can be the "freakiest" athlete on the planet, but until he actually uses them to dominate a basketball game, they are virtually useless (i.e look at ALL of his stats this season...including scoring efficiency). Oh, but that dunk the other night, right?