lipoli390 wrote:Just about any scorer would love to play with a really good pass-first PG like Ricky.
Being an unselfish, pass-first player doesn't automatically make you valuable. Magic, KG, Duncan, CP3, Lebron - these "unselfish" superstars were/are devastatingly effective because passing was the first option... not the *only* option. Until Ricky actually learns how to score with league-average efficiency, he will continue to limit the offense and obliterate floor spacing to the absolute detriment of his teammates.
This is even more of a reason that I am excited to have the offense run through Ricky more. Adelman's offense became a little too Barca for me last year and was a result of the ball being taken out of Ricky's hands too much. Not coincidentally, the post all star Ricky was better statistically when he had to shoulder more of a load offensively. When the ball is in Ricky's hands, the defense can't ignore him because he has the ability to get to the rim and teams won't just let him shoot layups all game. When his teammates are running around pounding the ball, it is then that teams ignore Ricky. Having the ball in Ricky's hands and having him set up his 4 teammates to finish is what is best for the team.
I also remember K-Mart listing Rubio as a reason he signed here. Said he had never played with a PG that was like him. People can hate on Ricky all they want, but he does have some allure to him. Players want easy buckets/good looks. He creates them.
Phenom's_Revenge wrote:
This is even more of a reason that I am excited to have the offense run through Ricky more. Adelman's offense became a little too Barca for me last year and was a result of the ball being taken out of Ricky's hands too much. Not coincidentally, the post all star Ricky was better statistically when he had to shoulder more of a load offensively. When the ball is in Ricky's hands, the defense can't ignore him because he has the ability to get to the rim and teams won't just let him shoot layups all game. When his teammates are running around pounding the ball, it is then that teams ignore Ricky. Having the ball in Ricky's hands and having him set up his 4 teammates to finish is what is best for the team.
+1 and here's to hoping he hits the gym hard this summer/fall. Shooting & physical strength are his main weaknesses.
1. Rubio is not worth a max deal. Not even with a rapidly expanding cap. Sure, it looks like paying him $15M or so is doable because there will be more room to work with... until you factor in all the other salaries that will be going up as well. That $5M guy is now an $8M guy. All the way down the line.
Besides that... Rubio simply isn't good enough for a max. He hasn't come even remotely close to proving he's worth a max. Lip or somebody questioned Kyle Lowry's 4 year/$48M deal. Really?
Lowry was the best player on a playoff team that looks like it's about to improve even more. He was arguably the best PG in the East after the first 20 or so games last season. That's not a bad deal at all in today's market for that kind of production.
2. Hayward and Parsons are getting paid ridiculous sums partly because they're not PGs or PFs. The league is littered with quality PGs. Almost every team has a great to good or even promising PG. As such, why would the 10th or 15th or 20th best one be valued so highly?
Conversely, how many teams have promising wings who seem to be on the upswing? The depth at that position is simply more shallow.
3. Saying you really wanted to play with a "pass-first PG" is great after the fact when you're sitting next to said PG's locker. And it almost makes it seem about less than the money. But is it really driving decisions? Are players overlooking MN's horrid basketball legacy and cold winters and bleak future just so they get an extra look a game? No. It's when guys are accepting 1/2 the money (Mike Miller) when you know they're serious about playing with a specific player.
If he wants the max there is no point in extending at this time. We can just wait for him to be a RFA and match any offer. I will be curious how Monroe contract works out. Things have been on his front.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:1. Rubio is not worth a max deal. Not even with a rapidly expanding cap. Sure, it looks like paying him $15M or so is doable because there will be more room to work with... until you factor in all the other salaries that will be going up as well. That $5M guy is now an $8M guy. All the way down the line.
Besides that... Rubio simply isn't good enough for a max. He hasn't come even remotely close to proving he's worth a max. Lip or somebody questioned Kyle Lowry's 4 year/$48M deal. Really?
Lowry was the best player on a playoff team that looks like it's about to improve even more. He was arguably the best PG in the East after the first 20 or so games last season. That's not a bad deal at all in today's market for that kind of production.
2. Hayward and Parsons are getting paid ridiculous sums partly because they're not PGs or PFs. The league is littered with quality PGs. Almost every team has a great to good or even promising PG. As such, why would the 10th or 15th or 20th best one be valued so highly?
Conversely, how many teams have promising wings who seem to be on the upswing? The depth at that position is simply more shallow.
3. Saying you really wanted to play with a "pass-first PG" is great after the fact when you're sitting next to said PG's locker. And it almost makes it seem about less than the money. But is it really driving decisions? Are players overlooking MN's horrid basketball legacy and cold winters and bleak future just so they get an extra look a game? No. It's when guys are accepting 1/2 the money (Mike Miller) when you know they're serious about playing with a specific player.
To be fair, it is a relatively small percentage of players that can be put in a position to want to play with Ricky. A large percentage of players are either under contract, a point guard themselves, or prefer having the ball in their hands and then there are only 14 players that can play with him. Most players will not take the minimum to play with any single player so team salary is a factor. If the Wolves had Ricky at a max deal and no other players under contract, it would be interesting to see how much pull he has.
We have been a living example for the past 10 years why a great young wing player is worth more than a capable PG. Just look at our own history if you want a reason to pay Parsons/Hayward more than Rubio. Supply and Demand...and currently, it should be heavily favoring contracts for good, young wing players.
While no one would hate playing with Rubio, the fact that he is a pass-first guy will NEVER drive a great player to come to the Wolves for this reason alone. Thus this "perk" isn't even a valid point to bring up when discussing Rubio's worth as a player.
And as far as putting "butts" in the seats....the Wolves had the 4th worst attendance record last season. Besides the Suns, the rest of the teams in the bottom 10 for attendance were WAY worse than the Wolves. This would say to me that Neither Rubio or Love are driving a fanbase despite their supposed "appeal".
I know I get a bit "glass 1/2-3/4 empty" when this topic is brought up, but I just can't stomach paying such a flawed player max type money. And I realize that he does some things well, in fact very well. But today's NBA PG simply needs to be able to score in order to maximize his value. This player will have the ball in his hands a lot at the end of games, and right now, Rubio is close to worthless in scenarios like this as no one needs to guard him, which then takes away his strengths as a facilitator. This is a HUGE flaw, and something that would make me let him walk in 2015 if he stands by his demands for max money. He is NOT worth Lowry money right now, and that deal is $12M. This is the top of the scale for where I allow this negotiation to go.
I think the Wolves have some facts/arguments that will hopefully keep Rubios contract down around the 10-12 mill avg or worst case a max 15 decelerating contract.
TheGrey08 wrote:I think the Wolves have some facts/arguments that will hopefully keep Rubios contract down around the 10-12 mill avg or worst case a max 15 decelerating contract.
TheGrey08 wrote:I think the Wolves have some facts/arguments that will hopefully keep Rubios contract down around the 10-12 mill avg or worst case a max 15 decelerating contract.
not allowed
We were talking about it just the other day and someone said that a max contract can accelerate, decelerate or be a flat even rate. Where are you seeing that you CAN'T decelerate a max deal?
