Rubio / Houston

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I'd like Rubio to stick around another year. I'd like to know just what type of player he can be... we STILL don't know yet, do we?

I feel like we know what we have: Rubio is an elite passer and defender that struggles to shoot and finish, but is active enough to draw a decent amount of foul shots, which he makes. He has proven that when surrounded by solid offensive weapons, he can quarterback an elite offense. Defensively, he is one of the most disruptive players in the league that isn't a Center.

That's what he is....and even some incremental improvement in his shot won't take away from the essence of what he brings to the table.

Well, we know he's a gifted passer, disruptive defender and historically awful shooter.

But how does that impact everybody else? Is it enough for a good team? We know he makes a difference when he's on the court with bad players. But we also know that Adelman didn't trust him down the stretch with decent to good players in a season when the Wolves lost a disproportionate amount of close games.

Is he simply one of the more unique players in the game that will never move beyond being a decent starting PG... but not close to elite?

In short, yes. It adds up to being a good starting PG. He's not the guy to carry us to the Finals. We're hoping that Wiggins/Towns do that someday with a lot of help from others, including Rubio. I can't think of a better PG to team up with young players trying to find their way in the league.

Rubio is The Great Enabler.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I'd like Rubio to stick around another year. I'd like to know just what type of player he can be... we STILL don't know yet, do we?

I feel like we know what we have: Rubio is an elite passer and defender that struggles to shoot and finish, but is active enough to draw a decent amount of foul shots, which he makes. He has proven that when surrounded by solid offensive weapons, he can quarterback an elite offense. Defensively, he is one of the most disruptive players in the league that isn't a Center.

That's what he is....and even some incremental improvement in his shot won't take away from the essence of what he brings to the table.

Well, we know he's a gifted passer, disruptive defender and historically awful shooter.

But how does that impact everybody else? Is it enough for a good team? We know he makes a difference when he's on the court with bad players. But we also know that Adelman didn't trust him down the stretch with decent to good players in a season when the Wolves lost a disproportionate amount of close games.

Is he simply one of the more unique players in the game that will never move beyond being a decent starting PG... but not close to elite?

In short, yes. It adds up to being a good starting PG. He's not the guy to carry us to the Finals. We're hoping that Wiggins/Towns do that someday with a lot of help from others, including Rubio. I can't think of a better PG to team up with young players trying to find their way in the league.

Rubio is The Great Enabler.

Let's say he is the great enabler. Better than we expected. What about in the playoffs?

Teams have more time to prepare game plans to attack/attack/attack/attack opposing team's weaknesses. It's why rotation players during the season suddenly get seated permanently on the bench. It's how Iguodala becomes Finals MVP and Bogut gets less run than Ezeli and Lee.

Rubio is lacking such a vital skillset... will it be easier to expose?



[Note: Yes, I realize that worrying about Rubio being exposed in the playoffs is far off and pushing the proverbial cart before the horse. Personally, I like Rubio with his glaring wart(s) and all. And his contract isn't terrible for what he brings when healthy. So I'm cool with him here. I just don't know yet whether he will enable the team to reach its potential... or eventually stifle it. Short term... I think he's pretty damn good for the team.]

[Hicks123 [enjin:6700838]]

And the thing I am not in total agreement about is labeling Rubio "an elite defender". I like the word disruptive, which was used in a couple comments....but I am not so sure about elite. When I think elite defenders in the league, I think of guys that can shut guys down...not just make a couple steals. What I have seen with Rubio is that he absolutely is atrocious fighting through screens, and he gets consistently lit up by quick PG. I have yet to see him lock down any top flight PG. Elite guys lock down the guys they are guarding game after game. Situationally, he can perhaps be this guy.....but not all the time.

[Coolbreeze44]

I'd like Rubio to stick around another year. I'd like to know just what type of player he can be... we STILL don't know yet, do we?

I feel like we know what we have: Rubio is an elite passer and defender that struggles to shoot and finish, but is active enough to draw a decent amount of foul shots, which he makes. He has proven that when surrounded by solid offensive weapons, he can quarterback an elite offense. Defensively, he is one of the most disruptive players in the league that isn't a Center.

That's what he is....and even some incremental improvement in his shot won't take away from the essence of what he brings to the table.

Well, we know he's a gifted passer, disruptive defender and historically awful shooter.

But how does that impact everybody else? Is it enough for a good team? We know he makes a difference when he's on the court with bad players. But we also know that Adelman didn't trust him down the stretch with decent to good players in a season when the Wolves lost a disproportionate amount of close games.

Is he simply one of the more unique players in the game that will never move beyond being a decent starting PG... but not close to elite?

In short, yes. It adds up to being a good starting PG. He's not the guy to carry us to the Finals. We're hoping that Wiggins/Towns do that someday with a lot of help from others, including Rubio. I can't think of a better PG to team up with young players trying to find their way in the league.

Rubio is The Great Enabler.

Let's say he is the great enabler. Better than we expected. What about in the playoffs?

Teams have more time to prepare game plans to attack/attack/attack/attack opposing team's weaknesses. It's why rotation players during the season suddenly get seated permanently on the bench. It's how Iguodala becomes Finals MVP and Bogut gets less run than Ezeli and Lee.

Rubio is lacking such a vital skillset... will it be easier to expose?



[Note: Yes, I realize that worrying about Rubio being exposed in the playoffs is far off and pushing the proverbial cart before the horse. Personally, I like Rubio with his glaring wart(s) and all. And his contract isn't terrible for what he brings when healthy. So I'm cool with him here. I just don't know yet whether he will enable the team to reach its potential... or eventually stifle it. Short term... I think he's pretty damn good for the team.]

I really like your last paragraph. I like the guy too, and am really looking forward to seeing how this pans out for him.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Fair enough Abe, I don't necessarily disagree. What teams will try to do in a playoff setting is get him to be the guy shooting the open jumper. His career 31% 3PT isn't very good, but it's not god-awful either. He can build on that. The other thing he does is make his foul shots, something fellow ring-holders Rajon Rondo and Andre Iguodala struggle with.

(I personally don't think he'll ever be a very good finisher or shooter off the dribble. The only question is at what point does Flip and Ricky himself resign themselves to this reality. Kidd basically abandoned the mid-range game at a certain point in his career and focused on hitting the open 3. I think Ricky will end up taking the same route eventually).

[Monster]

To sum up this good conversation where it started...

We know what Rubio is...but we don't.

[TheFuture]

I'm curious as to why Rubio's contract isn't looked at as too expensive by most here?

Strengths:
Elite Passer
Elite Ball Thief
Elite Ball handler
Great leader/charismatic
Good rebounder



Weaknesses:
On-ball defense
Shooting
Finishing at the rim
Athleticism
Durability (very bad, though most say they are all flukes?? either you're healthy or not...)

Though i'm a huge Ricky fan, I believe his 5 weaknesses I stated definitely out-weigh his 5 strengths. The PG needs to be a part of the offense outside of passing. The pick-and-roll game is greatly diminished when there is no worry of the PG scoring either by a jump shot or an attack at the rim. If he stays healthy this year he may prove to become somewhat worthy of that contract, but if not, then it will be a bad extension and he will have shown very little to prove that he is worth what he is making. He does make our team go, but who's to say another true PG couldn't do the same. He looks like the greatest possible option when compared to an over-the-hill shoot first mo Williams or jj barea, or a Zach lavine who has no experience running the point, or a d-league equivalent pg in Brown, but put an above-average PG who can run the offense on this team and I doubt we'd see a huge difference. The difference we would see is their 4-8 million dollars a year vs. Ricky's 13-14million. Stay healthy and prove me wrong Ricky! Or be the next Pekovic that we complain about for the next 4 years..

[bleedspeed]

When Tyus takes the job from him we will have a couple places to trade him.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

I'm curious as to why Rubio's contract isn't looked at as too expensive by most here?

Strengths:
Elite Passer
Elite Ball Thief
Elite Ball handler
Great leader/charismatic
Good rebounder



Weaknesses:
On-ball defense
Shooting
Finishing at the rim
Athleticism
Durability (very bad, though most say they are all flukes?? either you're healthy or not...)

Though i'm a huge Ricky fan, I believe his 5 weaknesses I stated definitely out-weigh his 5 strengths. The PG needs to be a part of the offense outside of passing. The pick-and-roll game is greatly diminished when there is no worry of the PG scoring either by a jump shot or an attack at the rim. If he stays healthy this year he may prove to become somewhat worthy of that contract, but if not, then it will be a bad extension and he will have shown very little to prove that he is worth what he is making. He does make our team go, but who's to say another true PG couldn't do the same. He looks like the greatest possible option when compared to an over-the-hill shoot first mo Williams or jj barea, or a Zach lavine who has no experience running the point, or a d-league equivalent pg in Brown, but put an above-average PG who can run the offense on this team and I doubt we'd see a huge difference. The difference we would see is their 4-8 million dollars a year vs. Ricky's 13-14million. Stay healthy and prove me wrong Ricky! Or be the next Pekovic that we complain about for the next 4 years..

Those are fair points, Rubioooo, and a good explanation for why Ricky doesn't currently rank among the top 10 PGs. And yet I'm in the camp that doesn't think of him as being overpaid. I think it comes down to his on/off numbers. This team just plays so much better when he is on the court. And while I don't particularly like PGs like Barea and Williams, they are both still held in somewhat high regard around the
league, and the team was light years better with Rubio at the point rather than either of these guys.

I also classify Rubio's injuries as bad luck rather than a chronic problem. Now, if he suffers another season ending injury this year again, I may change my mind and agree that he is overpaid.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

What's funny is that Barea and Mo both had positive +/- with Dallas and Charlotte last year. They certainly weren't so awful with their other teams!

We are just flat out a different team when Rubio is playing. Here are his career On/Off Numbers:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rubiori01/on-off/

Over a series of multiple seasons and lineups, our team is 10 points per 100 possessions better with him playing than not playing. That simply can't be explained away easily.