60WinTim wrote:Something I haven't see mentioned (but I could have missed it because this is a worthless conversation) is the effect KG will have on fan interest, ticket sales and overall energy in the Target Center. He makes an impact, and that is worth some dollars.
Also, since I read this stuff about "measuring his impact" and "not contending for 3-4 years", I assume a serious playoff push this season has got be viewed as a positive impact by KG. Right?
I think I've said this before but I believe any effect KG has as a vet on or off the floor may have no quantifiable effect. What I mean is that he may have a positive effect but we can pint to anything now or the future that says he did or didn't. That sounds convenient but just saying what I think.
khans2k5 wrote:Duncan took 5 million for a contender. 3 million in this market is about the cost of doing business for a rebuilding team hence the 8 million. Not ideal, but not outrageous either.
As noted, $8M/year shouldn't kill the Wolves cap or anything.
But when I read your post, it seemed like you put Duncan and Garnett on the same level... and that MN is simply overpaying for market. Duncan is a VASTLY BETTER player at this point and I don't think it's close. I don't think Garnett deserves anything close to Duncan if we're discussing on-court stuff... only.
Duncan played more minutes in the playoffs the past two seasons than Garnett played during the entire 2015 season. And he nearly matched Garnett's 2014 season too.
Duncan averaged 18 / 11 / 3 / 59% fg in the playoffs. Garnett cannot provide that kind of production at this stage.
Duncan taking 5 in a winning situation is just different then KG talking 8 in a situation where he has to spend a lot of time mentoring young guys. You can't compare players and the money they make based on who's better. If that were the case nobody could make within 10 million of the max after the performance Lebron just put on in the finals on his own. It's always been about the market and Duncan took less to play for a winning team and KG took more because he's also spending time mentoring playerswhich Duncan simply doesn't have to do on that team. Is Duncan in Vegas this week at his team's practices? KG isn't just getting paid for his play on the court so you also can't compare their salaries just based on on-court play. If Lebron took the minimum to play for the Spurs this year does that mean everyone else would have to play for free? That's why you can't just say Duncan is better so KG should make less. Duncan chose to take less than his market value. That's his loss, but it also doesn't mean everyone else has to take a pay cut just because he's a better player.
I can only take your post (bolded) as satirical. Sorry.
And yes... I know how salaries work in the NBA. And WHY Duncan signed for such a paltry amount. I never argued against any of that.
No, you argued KG should be making less money than Duncan because Duncan is a better player right now. That's just not how this league works and it's poor argument against KG's deal to say he should make a certain amount based on someone else's play. How about you stop cherry picking the Duncan comparison and look at how much someone like Kobe is making as a part-time guy? KG's deal looks reasonable compared to Kobe's doesn't it?
No. I think either I wrote it poorly, or you misinterpreted it.
My argument wasn't that Duncan should be getting more. A lot of factors go into it. But I quoted your post because it seemed to indicate you felt that Duncan and Garnett's on-court value was the same or very similar... and Garnett was getting paid more only because of the different markets.
My argument wasn't whether Garnett is making $100k or $8M or $100M... or whether he should be making more or less than Duncan... my argument was that Tim Duncan is the vastly superior player at this point in their careers.
- Maybe Garnett will also teach the young kids how to negotiate contracts. The guy has done very well with that ... over and over again in his career.
- Garnett's goodwill mini-homecoming tour affected me last season. So, my kid won tickets to a Wolves game. We took one of his cousins. The seats were super high and the cousin got vertigo and started crying 20 seconds in. I figured "No problem." It's a Wolves game and she's a crying 8-year-old girl. But, damn it... Target Center was electric that night. People were excited. The place was packed. There was no other place to put us. (I was also surprised that Target Center doesn't have more/any seating areas for watching the game in the concourse area.) So, anyway we left and watched the 2nd half at home. Damn you loyal fans!
- I think $16M is too much for what he'll bring on the court. But it shouldn't stifle what the Wolves can do. And I get all the marketing and ownership angles. And he'll help with the young guys, probably. But I wouldn't put THAT much stock in the mentorship angle.
- We were all hoodwinked by Flip last season with the Garnett bait-and-switch.
- Garnett started his NBA career before some of the players were born... or walking or talking, right? I've seen how younger adults look at me... and they're not the ones being chased since they were pre-teens with adulation and promises and touts of greatness. Their egos are probably a bit less than most NBA players. Basically, I'm slightly skeptical of a 40-year-old Garnett's ability to really connect with guys at such a vastly different point in their lives than he is.
[Note: Yes, I guess I did just sorta bitch about not getting my FREE tickets upgraded.]
- Maybe Garnett will also teach the young kids how to negotiate contracts. The guy has done very well with that ... over and over again in his career.
- Garnett's goodwill mini-homecoming tour affected me last season. So, my kid won tickets to a Wolves game. We took one of his cousins. The seats were super high and the cousin got vertigo and started crying 20 seconds in. I figured "No problem." It's a Wolves game and she's a crying 8-year-old girl. But, damn it... Target Center was electric that night. People were excited. The place was packed. There was no other place to put us. (I was also surprised that Target Center doesn't have more/any seating areas for watching the game in the concourse area.) So, anyway we left and watched the 2nd half at home. Damn you loyal fans!
- I think $16M is too much for what he'll bring on the court. But it shouldn't stifle what the Wolves can do. And I get all the marketing and ownership angles. And he'll help with the young guys, probably. But I wouldn't put THAT much stock in the mentorship angle.
- We were all hoodwinked by Flip last season with the Garnett bait-and-switch.
- Garnett started his NBA career before some of the players were born... or walking or talking, right? I've seen how younger adults look at me... and they're not the ones being chased since they were pre-teens with adulation and promises and touts of greatness. Their egos are probably a bit less than most NBA players. Basically, I'm slightly skeptical of a 40-year-old Garnett's ability to really connect with guys at such a vastly different point in their lives than he is.
[Note: Yes, I guess I did just sorta bitch about not getting my FREE tickets upgraded.]
Nailed it on everything. Except the fact that he's making 16.5 million, not a big deal I know, but found it funny that he's going to be making more then what was reported. 3rd highest paid Wolf on the team, and he only played 5 games for us last year!
Man can't believe it's only been a year where everybody thought Kevin Martin was overpaid
alexftbl8181 wrote:
Nailed it on everything. Except the fact that he's making 16.5 million, not a big deal I know, but found it funny that he's going to be making more then what was reported. 3rd highest paid Wolf on the team, and he only played 5 games for us last year!
Man can't believe it's only been a year where everybody thought Kevin Martin was overpaid
Considering the contracts that went out this summer, Martin is probably underpaid now. Pretty crazy. It also shows Duncan gave up even more money, but I highly doubt he would have taken that little if they weren't using the discount on other player upgrades. I respect what he's doing either way.
That said, If the Wolves were in the market for a nice FA and KG making 5 or 8 was the difference I bet they would have agreed to the lesser amount. He's putting in some work with the team in summer league and that tells you right there that he's about the team.
