Something to keep in mind about Payne

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I forgot Sheriff Khans was here. What say you, all-knowing forum poster? I forgot I'm never right about anything, nor should I have an opinion on a Wolves player. I should side with the general consensus and praise for Payne and ignore what I've seen from him through his junior/senior seasons + summer league + DL numbers + few games with us. My mistake.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

I forgot Sheriff Khans was here. What say you, all-knowing forum poster? I forgot I'm never right about anything, nor should I have an opinion on a Wolves player. I should side with the general consensus and praise for Payne and ignore what I've seen from him through his junior/senior seasons + summer league + DL numbers + few games with us. My mistake.

Payne is in the pros now. College doesn't matter anymore. Has anybody been talking about how Wiggins played in college now that he has had time on the court in the pros? The answer is no. So that is why we say give people more than a handful of games to start questioning who they can become. The difference between Wiggins at 26 games and now has been huge so how does it make sense to you to use college, summer league, etc. with Payne instead of just letting him play against the pros and then evaluate him? And quit being so butt hurt when you get called out for having a known issue with small sample sizes and evaluating players. That's the bed you've made. A lot of us are just saying let guys play some games before they already get picked apart. We're not saying he's good and you need to think that way or get out of here. The same thing happened with Wiggins and guess what happened? Literally a week later he got better and shut those people up that were trashing him.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I'm using his past to determine what I think his potential is. That's my opinion. That's the very same logic everyone uses pre-draft when talking about prospects. What's the difference? Other than you don't like me and I can't stand you. I didn't use his college play to discuss how he's played as a T-Wolf. You're putting words in my mouth there.

Guess what? I have been evaluating him as a pro. I've posted comments about how he's played in both starts. I'll continue to do so. If/when he does get better, my evaluation will progress as he progresses. You're a fool if that doesn't make sense to you.

Quit being a jackass. You're still pissy that Bennett has looked like garbage ever since you talked him up pre-Cavs trade. You threw sample size, injury excuses, poor situation and all of that in my face. I told you from everything that I saw that Bennett wasn't good and I told you why. All I'm doing with Payne is breaking down what I've seen from him in his couple of games here. And if we need to revisit the draft threads, you'll see that I wasn't high on Payne then either. Nothing wrong with any of that.

"We're not saying he's good and you need to think that way or get out of here." -- Right, most of the board has talked about his potential. I don't agree with them. Got it? Alright, good. The "get out of here" part was cute, though. Flexing your muscles, khans.

"Literally a week later he got better and shut those people up that were trashing him." -- Yay, more wrong information about that thread. It never fails. "Those people", mainly myself, Abe and Q, weren't trashing Wiggins. There was no trashing of any kind. We're all rooting for the kid. We were discussing how he played up to that point. Would you like to stop crying about that or do you still have more to get off your chest?

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Cam -At your job, does your manager give you daily feedback regarding your performance and call you out for poor days and praise you for good days? When you first started were you expected to know how to do the job well from day 1 or was there a grace period to learn how to do it right before they started truly evaluating your performance? Did you hit the peak of your job performance at 2 weeks or did you get better as 1 year went by? How about 2? Does your current company care about how you performed for previous companies in the past and use that to project how far you can rise in the current company? Payne is the equivalent of a new hire and he has been given no grace period by you or some of the other posters. At the end of the day Payne has played 4 games for us and he's already being criticized. To me that is ridiculous and shows an extreme lack of patience. Real-time tracking of rookie performance is dumb to me because of how much better players get over their first three years in the league.

[TheFuture]

Lol that's quite a comparison khans. I think you're nitpicking a bit much. If you want to use your analogy, a manager can see things right away. Can a new hire do math, do they work better independently or with others, can they/ are they comfortable speaking in front of a group of people/ presenting, can they handle customer issues, do they learn quick/work fast, etc. Etc.
A company can learn plenty of things in the first few days of a new employee. Yes, an employee could potentially get better in areas, but it is definitely fair to evaluate them right away and place them in areas that fit their skill set.

Why isnt everybody here entitled to their opinion without some people getting so defensive/offensive? I don't see the issue with cams or anybody elses opinion/evaluation on a player. As far as I can remember, cam admitted to being wrong about stauskas to this point. Have you owned up to being wrong about Bennett so far? All players could get better, but its fair to make claims/judgments on what they currently do/ are capable of at the moment.

[60WinTim]

I don't think Cam should be allowed to have an opinion, either... ;-)

[60WinTim]

Oops, misfired post.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Lol that's quite a comparison khans. I think you're nitpicking a bit much. If you want to use your analogy, a manager can see things right away. Can a new hire do math, do they work better independently or with others, can they/ are they comfortable speaking in front of a group of people/ presenting, can they handle customer issues, do they learn quick/work fast, etc. Etc.
A company can learn plenty of things in the first few days of a new employee. Yes, an employee could potentially get better in areas, but it is definitely fair to evaluate them right away and place them in areas that fit their skill set.

Why isnt everybody here entitled to their opinion without some people getting so defensive/offensive? I don't see the issue with cams or anybody elses opinion/evaluation on a player. As far as I can remember, cam admitted to being wrong about stauskas to this point. Have you owned up to being wrong about Bennett so far? All players could get better, but its fair to make claims/judgments on what they currently do/ are capable of at the moment.

I just have a different evaluation process. I don't really care what any player does until year 3 because that is when players typically hit their stride in the league. Bennett has played less minutes than Wiggins in his career so I don't think he's played enough to already call him a bust same as I haven't called Stauskas a bust nor Lavine. In relation to number 1 picks it isn't pretty, but he just hasn't played enough for me to call him a bust and throw him out already. All those people called out Wiggins and then he got better. Great. What did they accomplish? What was the point of calling him out that early? Just because? I don't believe people call out players in multiple threads just for the sake of calling them out. I think they have other motives but that's just me. In some cases I think they are hedging their bets just so they can be right no matter how a guy turns out. Every game Payne has played has involved someone commenting about his play that game and what he will become. At what point is that just beating a dead horse?

[TheFuture]

Lol that's quite a comparison khans. I think you're nitpicking a bit much. If you want to use your analogy, a manager can see things right away. Can a new hire do math, do they work better independently or with others, can they/ are they comfortable speaking in front of a group of people/ presenting, can they handle customer issues, do they learn quick/work fast, etc. Etc.
A company can learn plenty of things in the first few days of a new employee. Yes, an employee could potentially get better in areas, but it is definitely fair to evaluate them right away and place them in areas that fit their skill set.

Why isnt everybody here entitled to their opinion without some people getting so defensive/offensive? I don't see the issue with cams or anybody elses opinion/evaluation on a player. As far as I can remember, cam admitted to being wrong about stauskas to this point. Have you owned up to being wrong about Bennett so far? All players could get better, but its fair to make claims/judgments on what they currently do/ are capable of at the moment.

I just have a different evaluation process. I don't really care what any player does until year 3 because that is when players typically hit their stride in the league. Bennett has played less minutes than Wiggins in his career so I don't think he's played enough to already call him a bust same as I haven't called Stauskas a bust nor Lavine. In relation to number 1 picks it isn't pretty, but he just hasn't played enough for me to call him a bust and throw him out already. All those people called out Wiggins and then he got better. Great. What did they accomplish? What was the point of calling him out that early? Just because? I don't believe people call out players in multiple threads just for the sake of calling them out. I think they have other motives but that's just me. In some cases I think they are hedging their bets just so they can be right no matter how a guy turns out. Every game Payne has played has involved someone commenting about his play that game and what he will become. At what point is that just beating a dead horse?

Just read your first sentence there. You have your evaluation process, he has his, I have mine. No need to get all worked up about it all the time. Life is boring if we all agree. What would be the point of this board?

As for Payne, I liked him before the draft and I like him now. Players with his work ethic/ energetic play seem to stick around in the NBA as atleast role players. I see him as being good depth, and a possible starter in 1-2 years. His rebounding, defense, and scoring all shows promise. He just needs to get some of the excitement out, and we'll see some better decision making when he settles down a bit.

[Monster]

"Just read your first sentence there. You have your evaluation process, he has his, I have mine. No need to get all worked up about it all the time. Life is boring if we all agree. What would be the point of this board?"

Great post. We all have our ideas of evaluating and they tend to be different. We all have some sense we want to be right. We also all have some players we like and some we don't. There are also some of us have affinities for or against certain aspects of the game and if players do or don't do those things we tend to rip them or praise them. This board has a nice variety of viewpoints and in general it's pretty reasonable but sometimes we need to learn to let some stuff go and have even more of a sense of humor. This is all my opinion anyway. :)

So I have only seen Payne a couple games. It's nice to have a guy with length athletic ability and he seems to play hard. I know he probably has limited upside but he seems to be skilled. I know the result hasn't been good on the offensive end but he shows actual ability to put the ball on the floor and he showed ability to shoot in college. I'm not saying you draft guys thinking you only get a rotation guy but what if he becomes a Nick Collison type impact guy? That would be pretty good and the type of guy this team has been missing since heck I have no idea. Collison is a pretty good basketball player and Payne has a long way to go even to be that but I see payne as a big with length and athletic ability that's a good dude that plays hard with some diverse skills. My point in bringing up Collison is that Paybe seems to fit well it what I see Flip trying to do building a team and not just 5 starters or all-stars. I'm looking forward to seeing him play some more and see what he can do. I like Payne but I am skeptical about him as well and I probably side more with the skeptic than the people that really like him.