Something to keep in mind about Payne

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

If it's any solace, go look at Draymond Green's rookie year numbers.

Okay, so you're saying we should feel better because Draymond Green only shot 32% his rookie season? But the situations are totally different. Draymond Green was a forward who stayed all four years at Michigan State and thus came into the NBA at a relatively older age, and who Tom Izzo raved about. Adreian Payne, on the other hand was a...

I guess I see your point.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

If it's any solace, go look at Draymond Green's rookie year numbers.

Okay, so you're saying we should feel better because Draymond Green only shot 32% his rookie season? But the situations are totally different. Draymond Green was a forward who stayed all four years at Michigan State and thus came into the NBA at a relatively older age, and who Tom Izzo raved about. Adreian Payne, on the other hand was a...

I guess I see your point.

Well, it doesn't mean Payne will get a ton better like Green did, but I didn't realize how horrible Green was as a rookie. He carried a 14% usage, which means he almost never touched the ball on offense, and when he did, he either looked to pass or simply missed his shot.

To this day, Green still doesn't score much. He's also not much bigger than Satan, er, I mean Thad Young. He basically defends, gets steals, passes really well, and occasionally knocks down a 3. I really wonder how he would look on a team other than Golden State. He's a very, very good role player, but he seems likely to get overpaid.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

If it's any solace, go look at Draymond Green's rookie year numbers.

Okay, so you're saying we should feel better because Draymond Green only shot 32% his rookie season? But the situations are totally different. Draymond Green was a forward who stayed all four years at Michigan State and thus came into the NBA at a relatively older age, and who Tom Izzo raved about. Adreian Payne, on the other hand was a...

I guess I see your point.

I wonder if you have any other MSU big man comparisons. I can't think of any. And Green can guard 2-4. Payne for the most part can't guard 4s or 5s.

PS: He did have several good defensive possessions on Aldridge the other night. I realize that.

[bleedspeed]

I am sorry to kick a dead horse, but Payne is not the answer for us. People thinking he will get it next year because did are living in a fanasty world. Shabazz did get playing time and he was 3 years younger. I don't see a big jump coming from Payne next year and it is pretty said when our FA signing is already out playing him and likely Hummel would too and all 3 are about the same age.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

I am sorry to kick a dead horse, but Payne is not the answer for us. People thinking he will get it next year because did are living in a fanasty world. Shabazz did get playing time and he was 3 years younger. I don't see a big jump coming from Payne next year and it is pretty said when our FA signing is already out playing him and likely Hummel would too and all 3 are about the same age.

I can't disagree that Adreian has been terrible the past two games...if I didn't see the name on the back of his jersey, I would have thought that was Thad Young rebounding out there last night! But I think his 16-15 game against the Clippers this week is more indicative of what Payne can bring us, and I remain an unabashed fan of getting him in exchange for a pick that I expect to be in the 20 range. Yes, I recognize that even if you don't often get a good player in that range, that the pick can still be useful as a trade chip. And I recognize that Payne is 24 and often playing like the raw rookie he is. But I see great potential on both ends of the court, and expect him to be a solid rotation guy in the NBA...exactly what you hope to get with a non-lottery pick. CanisHoopus had a nice write up on Adreain last week, with video, highlighting the good and bad. But I can't help but see the potential when I watch this.

http://www.canishoopus.com/2015/3/3/8126275/knee-jerk-notes-adreian-payne

I'm looking forward to seeing how this one plays out.

[bleedspeed]

LST - As a Wolves fan I really really want to be wrong about him. I really do.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

"But I think his 16-15 game against the Clippers this week is more indicative of what Payne can bring us"

So, ignore the other games where he shoots sub-40% and contributes nothing to the game, but focus on the two double-doubles as an example of the player he is. I'm not seeing how that's logical. That's like saying ignore all the poor FG% games from Rubio, but focus on the handful of them over 50%. That makes no sense unless you have a burning bias for the guy.

Payne isn't going to get leaps and bounds better than what he is. His game itself is probably rounded out to the near max, but his mental game could improve (maybe). I said it last night, but it's telling when a guy picked up off waivers (Hamilton) is able to come in and immediately play better basketball than Payne. Same age folks. One just knows how to play and the other was blessed with the flashier physical makeup.

PS: Hamilton is very much like a seven-foot Hummel, and I'm OK with that. I was wrong about him. He certainly could be on this roster moving forward as an end of the bench guy that can produce in a pinch. Hummel-Hamilton. Sounds like a trustworthy law firm.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Cam: "His game itself is probably rounded out to the near max". This statement would have some validity if we knew that players typically were all they ever were going to be after just 12 NBA games. But I don't think anybody really believes that. The difference between playing college ball and pro is immense, and it takes almost everyone at least a year or two to develop their games at the pro level. That's why this board is usually in agreement that you can't expect significant contributions from rookies, because they still haven't adjusted to the pro game. Payne is long and athletic, and has a terrific work ethic. And his play in his first 12 NBA games hasn't looked much at all like his play at MSU. But to write him off and conclude that his game has "rounded out to the near max" is absurd. Flip and we know much more about Adreain's game from his 100+ games at MSU than his 12 in the NBA.

I also find the logic of comparing Hamilton's NBA readiness to Payne's, merely because they are the same age, is faulty. Hamilton is of Croatian decent, and went home to play in the tough Croatian league for two years before returning to the NBA. I agree that he looks more pro-ready than Payne at this stage, but the readiness gap is about what we should expect based on how much more pro experience he has had.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Hamilton is a basketball player and Payne is an athlete. The best players in the game are both. You can teach athletes to be better basketball players. You can't really make basketball players better athletes. That's why giving a guy like Payne more leash is important because his ceiling is higher than Hamilton's. Judging him after 12 pro games is just impatient. You just can't run an organization like that. He should get at least 1 off season and probably two before he is just written off. I don't care how old you are. There just aren't many rookies that are good because it is a major adjustment.

[KiwiMatt]

Payne and Bennett. Hopefully one out of the two develops into a starting calibre PF.

I'm not ready to give up hope, but for both of them it's all between the ears. They have both have talent.