Might as well talk draft....

[Monster]

How does Wiseman compare as a prospect to DeAndre Ayton coming out of college?

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

How does Wiseman compare as a prospect to DeAndre Ayton coming out of college?

He'll be more DeAndre Jordan than DeAndre Ayton, I think.

[Lipoli390]

Just a few thoughts, kek.

1. The difference between the opposition running a pick-and-roll with Towns at the four versus him at the five is mainly the way he'd be coached to defend it -- theoretically -- and who would be capable of erasing potential mistakes at the rim. I would hope that Towns would be coached to switch everything instead of trying to play drop coverage. When engaged, he can defend on the perimeter. Switching should be what he's instructed to do, in my opinion. His understanding of positioning and when to stunt/recover -- cat and mouse game -- is where I view his weaknesses now in defending that action. And if he blows the coverage, he'd have a potential eraser in Wiseman rotating over. Right now, Towns has Hernangomez as the last line of defense if he gets beat. That's a big difference.

2. I understand gameplanning for what opponents will do to attack you, but the Wolves need to think about how they can create their own mismatches. Having a dual-unicorn frontcourt, if you will, at least gives them the clear advantage in size and length. That translates into rebounds and should result in more forced turnovers -- meaning more possessions. And if the Clippers want to put Paul George on Towns or Wiseman -- or any other small ball lineup player -- then I say go for it. Towns has traditionally destroyed Draymond Green in their matchups. George wouldn't stand much of a chance.

3. We need to stop discussing Wiseman as a non-shooter. He can shoot it. He's not quite reliable from NBA three-point range, but he can hit 18-20 feet out and has a natural stroke with solid mechanics. His free throws stroke also shows potential with a 70% conversion in his three college games -- 6-7 FT, 9-14 FT, and 4-6 FT. Will he be another Towns? Obviously, no, but he could certainly grow into a Myles Turner type shooter.

I think your take on KAT is spot on. I agree completely with your observation that, when engaged, KAT can defense on the perimeter. I also agree that KAT's main issue on defense and how the team would benefit from an eraser type defensive big behind KAT. Wiseman definitely has the physical tools to become that eraser behind KAT and that he and KAT could be a matchup nightmare for opposing teams. I'm just not convinced that Wiseman has the basketball IQ or the competitive drive/passion to play up to his physical potential. I don't have much to go on, but I've read questions about his motor and passion for the game. That alarms me. But otherwise the case for the Wolves to take Wiseman is a strong one.

[Monster]

Just a few thoughts, kek.

1. The difference between the opposition running a pick-and-roll with Towns at the four versus him at the five is mainly the way he'd be coached to defend it -- theoretically -- and who would be capable of erasing potential mistakes at the rim. I would hope that Towns would be coached to switch everything instead of trying to play drop coverage. When engaged, he can defend on the perimeter. Switching should be what he's instructed to do, in my opinion. His understanding of positioning and when to stunt/recover -- cat and mouse game -- is where I view his weaknesses now in defending that action. And if he blows the coverage, he'd have a potential eraser in Wiseman rotating over. Right now, Towns has Hernangomez as the last line of defense if he gets beat. That's a big difference.

2. I understand gameplanning for what opponents will do to attack you, but the Wolves need to think about how they can create their own mismatches. Having a dual-unicorn frontcourt, if you will, at least gives them the clear advantage in size and length. That translates into rebounds and should result in more forced turnovers -- meaning more possessions. And if the Clippers want to put Paul George on Towns or Wiseman -- or any other small ball lineup player -- then I say go for it. Towns has traditionally destroyed Draymond Green in their matchups. George wouldn't stand much of a chance.

3. We need to stop discussing Wiseman as a non-shooter. He can shoot it. He's not quite reliable from NBA three-point range, but he can hit 18-20 feet out and has a natural stroke with solid mechanics. His free throws stroke also shows potential with a 70% conversion in his three college games -- 6-7 FT, 9-14 FT, and 4-6 FT. Will he be another Towns? Obviously, no, but he could certainly grow into a Myles Turner type shooter.

I think your take on KAT is spot on. I agree completely with your observation that, when engaged, KAT can defense on the perimeter. I also agree that KAT's main issue on defense and how the team would benefit from an eraser type defensive big behind KAT. Wiseman definitely has the physical tools to become that eraser behind KAT and that he and KAT could be a matchup nightmare for opposing teams. I'm just not convinced that Wiseman has the basketball IQ or the competitive drive/passion to play up to his physical potential. I don't have much to go on, but I've read questions about his motor and passion for the game. That alarms me. But otherwise the case for the Wolves to take Wiseman is a strong one.

Something I'm kicking around in my mind is that Towns is more about skill than he is instinct. I first thought of that as a defender Because many smart basketball folks suggest his instincts in certain defense have been shown to not up to par. Then I started thinking about some of his offensive game too in some cases. Poor screener especially for the threat he is all over the floor. I'm certainly not suggesting Towns doesn't have basketball instincts (For example his post game instincts are more than just skill) but I'm just kicking around the idea In my head that his individual skill is far superior to that aspect of his game which is part of why he comes up lacking to some extent despite being a ridiculous and productive talent.

[BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520]]

Was watching The Last Dance again and it would be really nice to have a Dennis Rodman type next to Kat and D Russel.

[Porckchop]

Was watching The Last Dance again and it would be really nice to have a Dennis Rodman type next to Kat and D Russel.

Has there been or will there ever be another player thats close to Rodman. Every team would covet that. Only player close in my mind was Ben Wallace and I don't think he was on par with Rodman.

[mrhockey89]

Something I'm kicking around in my mind is that Towns is more about skill than he is instinct. I first thought of that as a defender Because many smart basketball folks suggest his instincts in certain defense have been shown to not up to par. Then I started thinking about some of his offensive game too in some cases. Poor screener especially for the threat he is all over the floor. I'm certainly not suggesting Towns doesn't have basketball instincts (For example his post game instincts are more than just skill) but I'm just kicking around the idea In my head that his individual skill is far superior to that aspect of his game which is part of why he comes up lacking to some extent despite being a ridiculous and productive talent.

monster, you stole my thunder a bit with your take on Towns primary weakness. His skill level is through the roof, he's big enough that he should be able to handle most physical lineups, and he's mobile enough that although some small ball lineups could give him trouble potentially that it isn't his problem. It's not a lack of effort in my opinion either (even though at times that seems to be lacking on a certain side of the floor).

Towns can block a shot, Towns can box out and rebound a basketball, Towns at least from the eye test isn't a terrible post defender. That said, he gets caught in pick'n'roll situations and is virtually always a step late on his rotation and/or decision making. He hesitates a lot, doesn't fully close out, etc. I'm not 100% certain if this is just slow recognition skills or if he just doesn't have the right 'feel' for how to defend the play. I get nervous absolutely every time he's involved in a screen defensively, because I know it'll end up in an open shot or an open drive, or even an open cutter pass almost all the time.

[Monster]

Something I'm kicking around in my mind is that Towns is more about skill than he is instinct. I first thought of that as a defender Because many smart basketball folks suggest his instincts in certain defense have been shown to not up to par. Then I started thinking about some of his offensive game too in some cases. Poor screener especially for the threat he is all over the floor. I'm certainly not suggesting Towns doesn't have basketball instincts (For example his post game instincts are more than just skill) but I'm just kicking around the idea In my head that his individual skill is far superior to that aspect of his game which is part of why he comes up lacking to some extent despite being a ridiculous and productive talent.

monster, you stole my thunder a bit with your take on Towns primary weakness. His skill level is through the roof, he's big enough that he should be able to handle most physical lineups, and he's mobile enough that although some small ball lineups could give him trouble potentially that it isn't his problem. It's not a lack of effort in my opinion either (even though at times that seems to be lacking on a certain side of the floor).

Towns can block a shot, Towns can box out and rebound a basketball, Towns at least from the eye test isn't a terrible post defender. That said, he gets caught in pick'n'roll situations and is virtually always a step late on his rotation and/or decision making. He hesitates a lot, doesn't fully close out, etc. I'm not 100% certain if this is just slow recognition skills or if he just doesn't have the right 'feel' for how to defend the play. I get nervous absolutely every time he's involved in a screen defensively, because I know it'll end up in an open shot or an open drive, or even an open cutter pass almost all the time.

And guess what he sites before every season when it comes to defense...instincts! Lol I think when he does know what to do then like you described he can do it but yes sometimes he seems to have no clue. This hasn't been helped by playing in various systems some of which may not have played to whatever strengths he has. Oh and teammates that aren't exactly good on the perimeter don't help either. These aren't excuses but they are likely things keeping him from being better than he could be and they shouldn't be overlooked.

[Monster]

Was watching The Last Dance again and it would be really nice to have a Dennis Rodman type next to Kat and D Russel.

Has there been or will there ever be another player thats close to Rodman. Every team would covet that. Only player close in my mind was Ben Wallace and I don't think he was on par with Rodman.

It's a good question. Rodman was pretty unique. If we are talking about overall impact I think Draymond is a guy that has a similar impact. I think Ben Wallace had a pretty big overall impact on team defense which should be credited. Heck I COULD make an argument he was the most important/impactful player on a team that won a title. That's a pretty big deal. Rodman didn't score but he did a lot of little things On offense and was a high level passer. I'm one of the biggest Rodman fans ever In not going to argue any of these guys is his equal. He did it for a pretty long time too.

I think you can find guys that aren't HOF or possible HOF players that do a lot of what these guys did/do. Got plenty of scoring and a guy that knows how to really fit into what everyone else is doing and do all the stuff? Great. That can have a ton of value. Ervin Johnson brought some of that when the Wolves made their only run in franchise history. In this new NBA a healthy kirelenko would be nice to have next to Towns. PJ Tucker would be good. There are various types of guys that are somewhat reasonably attainable in terms of how other teams were able to acquire them in terms of resources we Can have some hope of finding that guy...of course we have been looking for that complimentary big next to a talented big for...idk most of the time since Googs left and for sure most of the time since KG left. Sigh

[Wolvesfan21]

KAT's biggest issue is his over aggressiveness on defense. He led the league in fouls last season, not sure about this one. He just needs to wall up vertically and rebound. Quit trying to block everything and fouling guys. Just make the other guy take a tough shot. He can be a solid defender if he simply stops fouling TOO much. Maybe he is also out of position too often as well, I'd be happy just seeing him clean up his fouling issue. Thats usually 2 free points plus he gets put on the bench too much. It's just a killer.