Might as well talk draft....

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I hear the skepticism about Givony and Schmitz's love for LaMelo. Just listen to them talk about LaMelo projecting as a good shooter (he shot 25% from 3 last year) then immediately turn around and trash Killian Hayes for his 29% 3 point shooting. What? Plus, Hayes shot 87% from the FT line, which is a really good sign for his shooting. Then Givony really excused Ball's lackadaisical defense before raising the exact same issue as a major reason why he's not high on Edwards. Again, huh? I get there are other factors at play, but try to be consistent guys.

For what it's worth, I can see the appeal of Ball. His floor vision and passing really are special. Nate and Danny from the Dunc'd On podcast also think Ball is the best prospect in the draft, and they focus on that ability to make the rest of the team better through playmaking as the reason.

But to me, there are just a lot of possible problems with Ball, particularly the shooting and defense. And there are also lots of problems with Edwards and Wiseman too. That's what makes the top of this draft such a crapshoot. The few guys who do have star potential also have so many question marks that you have to put the odds of them actually becoming stars fairly low. It's why trading down and getting a nice role player like Vassell and another asset appeals to so many of us.

[TheFuture]

Remember when all media was pushing Toppin to Minnesota when we were slated to pick 3-7? Even though defensively KAT and Toppin would be extremely ugly defensively? So why now can KAT and Wiseman not work?

[Monster]

It would be a real shame if Givony and Schmitz have sorta gone to the dark side. It wouldn't exactly be a huge shock though it's just different when you are part of such a big thing. When Givony was doing it on his own he really didn't have to answer to anyone or be a part of any corporate culture etc.

Personally I don't feel like I've kept up with enough stuff about this draft (Mostly due to COVID and the nature of this draft process) to really have a feel Of what might be more likely tot be true or not. There is no way I would be able to catch up and I don't want to. I'm mostly just going to wait for the results. My take is from the info I have is I bet teams don't really know what other teams are going to do and I also think while there is probably more consensus on some prospects (like Wiseman) than it has been reported at times I think teams are going to vary quite a bit on some guys in this draft. It should be very interesting to watch it unfold.

[thedoper]

I think it's totally obvious that ESPN wants the Wolves to move to Seattle just to further stoke that NBA conspiracy fire.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Anthony Edwards On/Off

On
Offense: 108.13 points per 100 possessions
Defense: 110.07 points per 100 possessions
Net: - 1.95 points per 100 possessions

Off
Offense: 113.21 points per 100 possessions
Defense: 102.99 points per 100 possessions
Net: + 10.22 points per 100 possessions

Differential
Offense: - 5.09 points per 100 possessions
Defense: + 7.08 points per 100 possessions
Net: - 12.17 points per 100 possessions

Source: Pivot Analysis

These are the worst numbers on the team, by the way. Georgia was a much better basketball team without Edwards on the floor taking ill-advised shots and showing no consistency on the defensive end. He drove that team into the ground from a statistical standpoint. We can debate over his skills and physical profile -- both of which are above average. However, when he was on the court he did not contribute to winning basketball, but rather the opposite.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Anthony Edwards On/Off

On
Offense: 108.13 points per 100 possessions
Defense: 110.07 points per 100 possessions
Net: - 1.95 points per 100 possessions

Off
Offense: 113.21 points per 100 possessions
Defense: 102.99 points per 100 possessions
Net: + 10.22 points per 100 possessions

Differential
Offense: - 5.09 points per 100 possessions
Defense: + 7.08 points per 100 possessions
Net: - 12.17 points per 100 possessions


Source: Pivot Analysis

These are the worst numbers on the team, by the way. Georgia was a much better basketball team without Edwards on the floor taking ill-advised shots and showing no consistency on the defensive end. He drove that team into the ground from a statistical standpoint. We can debate over his skills and physical profile -- both of which are above average. However, when he was on the court he did not contribute to winning basketball, but rather the opposite.

Yes, confirms our worst fears! Hadn't seen these numbers, but it makes sense. Guys who jack up a bunch of shots and play poor defense hurt their team more than help, despite the fact they may put up a bundle of points. It ain't rocket science!

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

According to The Ringer, LaMelo Ball was in the 4th percentile in defending spot-up shot attempts and below the 1st percentile in defending pick-and-rolls during his 12-game stretch in the NBL. How is it possible to be that fucking atrocious on defense? That's not just bad. That's downright unplayable, especially when you consider the talent level over there is a fraction of what exists in the NBA.

That along with his completely broken shot is enough to turn me away from him altogether. How is he going to be successful in the NBA let alone become a star player? He can't consistently beat defenders off the bounce because he lacks above average athleticism. He can't make shots from the perimeter because he has the mechanics of a middle schooler. He can't defend on ball or off ball. He's a good rebounder for his position thanks to his 6'7 frame and he's a quality facilitator/passer albeit a less valuable skill if he's unable to present himself to be a viable scoring threat.

I can't understand why he's considered one of the top prospects in this draft class. Is it the high school hype? Is it the social media fame? Is it the family name? It must be one of those factors because if we're judging him off of what he's done on a basketball court even in a limited sample size he's not worthy of being in that discussion.

Edit: Ball is a 6'7 Ricky Rubio that can't defend or a 6'7 Trae Young that can't shoot. Either way, you won't be winning m(any) games if he's one of your best players.

Reposting this from a different thread and saving it for later.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

According to The Ringer, LaMelo Ball was in the 4th percentile in defending spot-up shot attempts and below the 1st percentile in defending pick-and-rolls during his 12-game stretch in the NBL. How is it possible to be that fucking atrocious on defense? That's not just bad. That's downright unplayable, especially when you consider the talent level over there is a fraction of what exists in the NBA.

That along with his completely broken shot is enough to turn me away from him altogether. How is he going to be successful in the NBA let alone become a star player? He can't consistently beat defenders off the bounce because he lacks above average athleticism. He can't make shots from the perimeter because he has the mechanics of a middle schooler. He can't defend on ball or off ball. He's a good rebounder for his position thanks to his 6'7 frame and he's a quality facilitator/passer albeit a less valuable skill if he's unable to present himself to be a viable scoring threat.

I can't understand why he's considered one of the top prospects in this draft class. Is it the high school hype? Is it the social media fame? Is it the family name? It must be one of those factors because if we're judging him off of what he's done on a basketball court even in a limited sample size he's not worthy of being in that discussion.

Edit: Ball is a 6'7 Ricky Rubio that can't defend or a 6'7 Trae Young that can't shoot. Either way, you won't be winning m(any) games if he's one of your best players.

Reposting this from a different thread and saving it for later.

This is what makes the Givony/Schmitz love so suspicious.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I hear the skepticism about Givony and Schmitz's love for LaMelo. Just listen to them talk about LaMelo projecting as a good shooter (he shot 25% from 3 last year) then immediately turn around and trash Killian Hayes for his 29% 3 point shooting. What? Plus, Hayes shot 87% from the FT line, which is a really good sign for his shooting. Then Givony really excused Ball's lackadaisical defense before raising the exact same issue as a major reason why he's not high on Edwards. Again, huh? I get there are other factors at play, but try to be consistent guys.

For what it's worth, I can see the appeal of Ball. His floor vision and passing really are special. Nate and Danny from the Dunc'd On podcast also think Ball is the best prospect in the draft, and they focus on that ability to make the rest of the team better through playmaking as the reason.

But to me, there are just a lot of possible problems with Ball, particularly the shooting and defense. And there are also lots of problems with Edwards and Wiseman too. That's what makes the top of this draft such a crapshoot. The few guys who do have star potential also have so many question marks that you have to put the odds of them actually becoming stars fairly low. It's why trading down and getting a nice role player like Vassell and another asset appeals to so many of us.

As we saw with Rubio, there is only so much a great passer can do to propel an offense (and Rubio did indeed help more than he hurt). Buuuuut, I'd take an elite shooter and/or finisher with decent passing instincts versus a mediocre shooter/finisher with great passing instincts because I think the former does more to create space for other guys than the latter.

And then there is the defense....

[Wolvesfan21]

Ball is a fair comparison to Rubio. Rubio played defense though, maybe not great but he did. Ball will likely finish around the rim much better which was a problem for Rubio. Rubio just didn't have the athleticism or skill to have that floater game.

I would hate the Wolves drafted Ball. His lack of defense and his putrid 3p% are too big of holes for me. Could he improve in both areas? Maybe, but I wouldn't bet on it.