Might as well talk draft....

[kekgeek]

A boom or bust shooter that busts is more likely out of the league sooner than a boom or bust big man. A big man can still rebound and block shots and clog up the lane.
Wiseman is not only the safest pick but has the highest ceiling as well.

You could be right but here is the thing even if Wiseman hits the ultimate potential what is hard to do and turns into an embiid type player there is no proof that teams can win consistently with big men in the NBA. I will say it again it has been since 2011 that one of a teams top 2 players was a big man and won a championship. Then the wolves would have 2 of their top 3 players being big men. Also if a big man and a wing or guard player end up having similar the wing/guard are always more valuable. Wiseman would have to be significantly better then any wing or guard to draft a big man.

If the league started tomorrow there are 3-4 accomplished NBA vets that are FAs that you could sign to rebound, clog the lane and block shots. That doesn't even count the guys more on the fringes like in the G-league or in other leagues that might be worth having on a roster but teams don't really play guys like that much anymore. Getting a rotation big over a guy that ends up simply out of the league isn't particularly compelling for me to take Wiseman over some perimeter player. There is more to it but Clint Capella basically got Traded for a lottery protected first round pick or a little over half of what It took to get Covington. Wiseman is going to have to be pretty good to have a lot of value and I am not convinced the league isn't going to swing back to bigs especially if they aren't versatile offensively or are really good defensively. Embiid is both. FWIW I don't see Wiseman as the same level of prospect that Embiid was. He does have a more clean slate in terms of health though which isn't a small thing.

Guess well dismiss our own perimeter players in recent drafts as reasons to maybe look in a different direction. I mean come on, Culver and Okogie? Sheesh

Ok do you want to talk about the centers we drafted for the first what like 20 years of this franchise? Lol

I also want to say I don't think me and monster are saying Okogie and Culver are great but I do think the wolves could get more value/ similar in a trade involving okogie then 80% of the leagues starting Centers could get.

I think we are saying Weisman has to be All NBA type talent to justify the pick or move the needle. He has to be in the Davis, Embiid, Jokic, Towns, Gobert tier to justify the pick.

Look at those good NBA starting Centers got in return. Lotto protected 1st for capela, 2nd round pick for Drummond, Blazers only gave up Plummlee and a 2nd for Nurkic (also acquired a 1st in the trade), Gasol was acquired for Valuncunice, Wright, Miles and a 2024 2nd.

So 2nd tier Centers were acquired for super cheap and didn't give up the opportunity to draft another high none center prospect.

Now look at other really good teams. Warriors won a championship with minimum guy in McGee, Lakers now have min guys in Howard and Mcgee. Clippers got zubac for muscala, bucks got Lopez for super cheap, Mavs have powell who is cheap.

While non stars/ not even close to all star wing guys like Cov can be traded for an all nba player in Butler and then again a 1st, Beasley (young asset), hernangomez and Vanderbilt.

If you draft a C he has to be an All NBA to make a noticeable difference from what you can get via trade or FA for cheap.

Guys like Powell, Cov, FVF, Lou Willians, Gary Harris, PJ Tucker who are 4th, 5th ,6th sometimes 7th best players on your team have more value then 28 NBA starting Centers, what consists of All Starts and borderline All Starts. So if a Guard or Wing player becomes a role player they are more valuable asset then almost all centers and that is not even taking into consideration your wing guy can become All Star/ All NBA and all of a sudden you are a title contender if that pick hits

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I get what you're saying, kek, and you're not necessarily wrong in your message. But if you hit on James Wiseman and he's anything close to Anthony Davis, Joel Embiid, or Rudy Gobert -- well, then he's a huge game-changer. One could practically argue the impact would be much more than a middle-of-the-pack wing. And that's where those of us that see a star in Wiseman seem to be. I think even in a worst case scenario Wiseman is Clint Capela, and that guy has been extremely productive throughout his career despite some durability issues here and there. So, I guess it really comes down to your personal analysis of the prospect here.

[Lipoli390]

I think that Clint Capela next to Towns would significantly improve the Wolves. As for Wiseman, I just don't have a good handle on him. I'm concerned about reports questioning his motor. That's scary because it suggests bust potential. I worry about scouting analysis that questions his lateral quickness and strength. I don't know his overhead reach or vertical leap. He only played 3 college games, so there's no meaningful NCAA track record to help evaluate his potential. Too many question marks for me to take him with a top 5 pick. On the other hand, if Wiseman can become the player some believe he has the potential to be, then Cam is right about him being a great addition to the Wolves.

[mrhockey89]

If it were me, I'm taking Wiseman if available and not looking back. He looks like the biggest lock in this draft but for the short season he had last year. To me I see Joel Embiid, except with better health and better ability on the perimeter.

I understand the concern that the league is trending toward a perimeter game, but one of this team's biggest problems is that our defense breaks down easily, which means our players cheat. Having a guy down low as a legitimate shot blocking presence who also has the ability to box out and a great frame, along with an offensive game is still valuable. Most people would agree that Embiid is more of a difference maker than Towns is, even though Towns is a much more diverse and better offensive weapon. Having Wiseman on the floor with Towns would allow Towns to be in a more natural role for his skill set. Look at Kentucky with Towns, who was next to him? Willie Cauley-Stein, a shot blocking presence that could guard multiple
positions. Players like Embiid, Gobert, etc still have significant value in this league, as much as virtually anyone for that matter.

Though I agree that guys like Capela would look good as well, the ability, skill set, body type, and all around game that Wiseman has makes his ceiling a lot higher, and in a draft full of little certainty, we can't afford to miss on this draft. After all, we don't have a pick next year. Let's get a guy who can get us the ball back rather than give the other team 2nd/3rd/4th chances on the offensive end.

[kekgeek]

I get what you're saying, kek, and you're not necessarily wrong in your message. But if you hit on James Wiseman and he's anything close to Anthony Davis, Joel Embiid, or Rudy Gobert -- well, then he's a huge game-changer. One could practically argue the impact would be much more than a middle-of-the-pack wing. And that's where those of us that see a star in Wiseman seem to be. I think even in a worst case scenario Wiseman is Clint Capela, and that guy has been extremely productive throughout his career despite some durability issues here and there. So, I guess it really comes down to your personal analysis of the prospect here.

I also get what you are saying, we just disagree philosophically with this one. I honestly believe that Wiseman has to be in the same tier as Embiid or its a bust of a pick. Not that Capela isn't a good player but you can get very good C like Capela or Drummond or Nurkic or Gasol or Lopez, etc... for way cheaper then a top 5 pick.

I compare the C position to a RB in football, there are still big players that can make a big difference like Elliot, Kamara, McCaffery that move the needle but 95% of the league it is a plug and play and it makes little to no difference who your RB is. I mean Chiefs had Damien Williams and won a super bowl, Tevin Coleman/4th team Mostert/Brieda played for the 49ers. Pats won with Micheal/Burkhead/White/Bolden. Rams had Gurley but during the playoff push and to the super bowl they just plugged and played CJ Anderson who did was amazing for them and he was signed off the street and now out of the league.

I don't see Wiseman as a All-NBA prospect, Im worried about his ball handling, not a proven shot (can't say he can't develop it), reports about his motor and even though he has a great body/athleticism to be a good defender it is hard to project bigs on how they will do defensively. I mean Kat, WCS, Biyambo, Dieng were all supposed to be good to great NBA NBA defenders they didn't develop into that. I think that is hard to project how bigs defend in the NBA.

My buddy when we selected Patton said it was a terrible pick because of the position Patton played and not because of the skill set Patton had. Wings win into todays game. Patton career ended by injuries but even if we selected Collins. Collins is considered a good NBA player but there are reports that the Hawks will not extend Collins past his rookie contract because they don't want to pay for what he brings to the table when they can get a little less production for cheap. So a NBA team is going to just let a good young NBA big walk because they don't know what value he brings to winning and he is a great rim runner and rebounded.

I would rather take a shot a Guard or Wing, now those players might bust. But they just need to be a middle of the pack wing to have just as much value as a Clint Capela type player. They are more valuable in trades and if they do it you are a title contender, unlike bigs.

[Porckchop]

I get what you're saying, kek, and you're not necessarily wrong in your message. But if you hit on James Wiseman and he's anything close to Anthony Davis, Joel Embiid, or Rudy Gobert -- well, then he's a huge game-changer. One could practically argue the impact would be much more than a middle-of-the-pack wing. And that's where those of us that see a star in Wiseman seem to be. I think even in a worst case scenario Wiseman is Clint Capela, and that guy has been extremely productive throughout his career despite some durability issues here and there. So, I guess it really comes down to your personal analysis of the prospect here.

I also get what you are saying, we just disagree philosophically with this one. I honestly believe that Wiseman has to be in the same tier as Embiid or its a bust of a pick. Not that Capela isn't a good player but you can get very good C like Capela or Drummond or Nurkic or Gasol or Lopez, etc... for way cheaper then a top 5 pick.

I compare the C position to a RB in football, there are still big players that can make a big difference like Elliot, Kamara, McCaffery that move the needle but 95% of the league it is a plug and play and it makes little to no difference who your RB is. I mean Chiefs had Damien Williams and won a super bowl, Tevin Coleman/4th team Mostert/Brieda played for the 49ers. Pats won with Micheal/Burkhead/White/Bolden. Rams had Gurley but during the playoff push and to the super bowl they just plugged and played CJ Anderson who did was amazing for them and he was signed off the street and now out of the league.

I don't see Wiseman as a All-NBA prospect, Im worried about his ball handling, not a proven shot (can't say he can't develop it), reports about his motor and even though he has a great body/athleticism to be a good defender it is hard to project bigs on how they will do defensively. I mean Kat, WCS, Biyambo, Dieng were all supposed to be good to great NBA NBA defenders they didn't develop into that. I think that is hard to project how bigs defend in the NBA.

My buddy when we selected Patton said it was a terrible pick because of the position Patton played and not because of the skill set Patton had. Wings win into todays game. Patton career ended by injuries but even if we selected Collins. Collins is considered a good NBA player but there are reports that the Hawks will not extend Collins past his rookie contract because they don't want to pay for what he brings to the table when they can get a little less production for cheap. So a NBA team is going to just let a good young NBA big walk because they don't know what value he brings to winning and he is a great rim runner and rebounded.

I would rather take a shot a Guard or Wing, now those players might bust. But they just need to be a middle of the pack wing to have just as much value as a Clint Capela type player. They are more valuable in trades and if they do it you are a title contender, unlike bigs.

I don't understand that logic, we spent our last two first round picks on perimeter players and they have been below average yet still taking roster spots. Your saying we should do it again and be okay if they don't necessarily boom, but if a we pick a center to pair with Towns he has to be a close to generational talent? The best shooters in this draft are slotted to still possibly be available with our Jersey pick.

[kekgeek]

I get what you're saying, kek, and you're not necessarily wrong in your message. But if you hit on James Wiseman and he's anything close to Anthony Davis, Joel Embiid, or Rudy Gobert -- well, then he's a huge game-changer. One could practically argue the impact would be much more than a middle-of-the-pack wing. And that's where those of us that see a star in Wiseman seem to be. I think even in a worst case scenario Wiseman is Clint Capela, and that guy has been extremely productive throughout his career despite some durability issues here and there. So, I guess it really comes down to your personal analysis of the prospect here.

I also get what you are saying, we just disagree philosophically with this one. I honestly believe that Wiseman has to be in the same tier as Embiid or its a bust of a pick. Not that Capela isn't a good player but you can get very good C like Capela or Drummond or Nurkic or Gasol or Lopez, etc... for way cheaper then a top 5 pick.

I compare the C position to a RB in football, there are still big players that can make a big difference like Elliot, Kamara, McCaffery that move the needle but 95% of the league it is a plug and play and it makes little to no difference who your RB is. I mean Chiefs had Damien Williams and won a super bowl, Tevin Coleman/4th team Mostert/Brieda played for the 49ers. Pats won with Micheal/Burkhead/White/Bolden. Rams had Gurley but during the playoff push and to the super bowl they just plugged and played CJ Anderson who did was amazing for them and he was signed off the street and now out of the league.

I don't see Wiseman as a All-NBA prospect, Im worried about his ball handling, not a proven shot (can't say he can't develop it), reports about his motor and even though he has a great body/athleticism to be a good defender it is hard to project bigs on how they will do defensively. I mean Kat, WCS, Biyambo, Dieng were all supposed to be good to great NBA NBA defenders they didn't develop into that. I think that is hard to project how bigs defend in the NBA.

My buddy when we selected Patton said it was a terrible pick because of the position Patton played and not because of the skill set Patton had. Wings win into todays game. Patton career ended by injuries but even if we selected Collins. Collins is considered a good NBA player but there are reports that the Hawks will not extend Collins past his rookie contract because they don't want to pay for what he brings to the table when they can get a little less production for cheap. So a NBA team is going to just let a good young NBA big walk because they don't know what value he brings to winning and he is a great rim runner and rebounded.

I would rather take a shot a Guard or Wing, now those players might bust. But they just need to be a middle of the pack wing to have just as much value as a Clint Capela type player. They are more valuable in trades and if they do it you are a title contender, unlike bigs.

I don't understand that logic, we spent our last two first round picks on perimeter players and they have been below average yet still taking roster spots. Your saying we should do it again and be okay if they don't necessarily boom, but if a we pick a center to pair with Towns he has to be a close to generational talent? The best shooters in this draft are slotted to still possibly be available with our Jersey pick.

Obviously you need to hit on the pick and they can't be below average (I'm not ready to give up on okogie or Culver). I'm saying you can get above average C top 5-10 in the NBA for 2nd round picks. Why waste a top 5 pick when he can get a damn good center for cheap. Only way pick works is if the Center is All NBA.

While a guy like Cov who is a role player wing probably the 5th starter on a title team can be the center piece in a trade to acquire an All NBA player in Butler and then re-traded for a 1st, young talented asset in Beasley, role player hernangomez and prospect Vanderbilt.

If the C is not All NBA they have little to no trade value in the open market. An average wing has a good amount of value.

I think Wiseman will be like Drummond so a top 10 C. You can get that type of player for a 2nd. Why use a top 5 pick on that.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

I get what you're saying, kek, and you're not necessarily wrong in your message. But if you hit on James Wiseman and he's anything close to Anthony Davis, Joel Embiid, or Rudy Gobert -- well, then he's a huge game-changer. One could practically argue the impact would be much more than a middle-of-the-pack wing. And that's where those of us that see a star in Wiseman seem to be. I think even in a worst case scenario Wiseman is Clint Capela, and that guy has been extremely productive throughout his career despite some durability issues here and there. So, I guess it really comes down to your personal analysis of the prospect here.

I also get what you are saying, we just disagree philosophically with this one. I honestly believe that Wiseman has to be in the same tier as Embiid or its a bust of a pick. Not that Capela isn't a good player but you can get very good C like Capela or Drummond or Nurkic or Gasol or Lopez, etc... for way cheaper then a top 5 pick.

I compare the C position to a RB in football, there are still big players that can make a big difference like Elliot, Kamara, McCaffery that move the needle but 95% of the league it is a plug and play and it makes little to no difference who your RB is. I mean Chiefs had Damien Williams and won a super bowl, Tevin Coleman/4th team Mostert/Brieda played for the 49ers. Pats won with Micheal/Burkhead/White/Bolden. Rams had Gurley but during the playoff push and to the super bowl they just plugged and played CJ Anderson who did was amazing for them and he was signed off the street and now out of the league.

I don't see Wiseman as a All-NBA prospect, Im worried about his ball handling, not a proven shot (can't say he can't develop it), reports about his motor and even though he has a great body/athleticism to be a good defender it is hard to project bigs on how they will do defensively. I mean Kat, WCS, Biyambo, Dieng were all supposed to be good to great NBA NBA defenders they didn't develop into that. I think that is hard to project how bigs defend in the NBA.

My buddy when we selected Patton said it was a terrible pick because of the position Patton played and not because of the skill set Patton had. Wings win into todays game. Patton career ended by injuries but even if we selected Collins. Collins is considered a good NBA player but there are reports that the Hawks will not extend Collins past his rookie contract because they don't want to pay for what he brings to the table when they can get a little less production for cheap. So a NBA team is going to just let a good young NBA big walk because they don't know what value he brings to winning and he is a great rim runner and rebounded.

I would rather take a shot a Guard or Wing, now those players might bust. But they just need to be a middle of the pack wing to have just as much value as a Clint Capela type player. They are more valuable in trades and if they do it you are a title contender, unlike bigs.

I don't understand that logic, we spent our last two first round picks on perimeter players and they have been below average yet still taking roster spots. Your saying we should do it again and be okay if they don't necessarily boom, but if a we pick a center to pair with Towns he has to be a close to generational talent? The best shooters in this draft are slotted to still possibly be available with our Jersey pick.

Let's not act like Okogie was a top level pick for us. He was picked 20th overall and he plays like a rotation player defensively with upside he can still attain offensively if his shot improves. I would say he falls right in line with what you would expect to get with that pick so that pick should no be treated the same way as a potentially top 5 pick. Culver had a bad first year and I still don't think he was who Rosas wanted when he traded up to that spot. Who knows what he can develop, but right now he's looking like a bust who's in over his head. So yes we should probably spend our high pick this year and keep trying to hit on the more important positions in the league because you just need those guys to win. Saying the last 2 didn't work out so we shouldn't try anymore isn't a solution. The league is run by guards and wings so unless Wiseman is Embiid or AD where he can't be played off the floor then you have to keep throwing the darts at the guys who will close out games.

[Monster]

Some folks think there is a legit chance Wiseman is an all-nba player. If so then obviously you would want to select him. Some others Including myself question that potential And his path to get there. I'm not saying absolutely don't pick him but I don't feel sold on him as a prospect. I would say if I knew I was going to get the next Capela with that pick I would probably do it even though that value isn't as high as a pretty good complimentary wing. Some of that is the uncertainty about the players in this draft.

On the other hand if you told me I could get some sort of legit good starting wing for that spot I wouldn't turn that down either.

You can find wings and bigs with lower picks etc. Guys like Covington and Danny Green were cut from rosters before landing in spots Becoming high level complimentary guys. Tucker took a winding road to become a wing then. A modern "big". Teams have to maximize their assets and find a worthwhile player from a 2nd round pick or below. This obviously has not been the Wolves strong suit and it's one of the reasons The franchise has struggled. Ultimately I still say in this draft you take the player you feel most strongly about (In a good way lol) regardless of position. It's also worth noting that you never know when a group of just pretty good players lands you a really good player so there is merit in not just swinging for the fences on every pick.

[bleedspeed177 [enjin:6603232]]

Okogie and Culver wouldn't prevent me from taking a guard/wing.