Might as well talk draft....

[Lipoli390]

Thanks for posting the article, Monster. I remember Piatkowski. I was a huge college basketball fan back then and he was a guy I remember well. The Polish Rifleman. :). It is certainly a different game today than it was in the 90s. I can see how Eric's game would fit well in today's NBA.

LaMello and Haliburton both are listed as having 7'0 wingspans. LaMello's height is listed as 6'7 and Halliburton's as 6'5. So both are freakishly long for either guard position in the NBA. As you know, I tend to put a lot of stock in a prospect's length. But as we all know, length and great athleticism ultimately mean very little if not accompanied by NBA caliber skills and strong competitive drive. LaMello definitely has skills - I'd say elite skills for a PG. So he has that combination of freakish length and elite skills that a player like Okogie doesn't have. That's why I think it's reasonable to project Ball becoming a star. I question whether he has the competitive drive and love for the game to make it all come together at the NBA level. And he has yet to prove that he's a good enough perimeter shooter to be a great NBA player.

The reason I still believe that Okogie will become a really good NBA player is because he has a strong competitive drive and high octane motor to go with his freakish 7'0 wingspan and elite athleticism. His problem has been his skill set lagging well behind his length and athleticism. I think he can and will develop his skills and learn to play under control given his competitive drive and work ethic. He already showed improvement this season. This organization needs to remain patient with Josh. If he could only develop a reliable jump shot, but that may never come just as it never developed for Rubio.

[Monster]

Thanks for posting the article, Monster. I remember Piatkowski. I was a huge college basketball fan back then and he was a guy I remember well. The Polish Rifleman. :). It is certainly a different game today than it was in the 90s. I can see how Eric's game would fit well in today's NBA.

LaMello and Haliburton both are listed as having 7'0 wingspans. LaMello's height is listed as 6'7 and Halliburton's as 6'5. So both are freakishly long for either guard position in the NBA. As you know, I tend to put a lot of stock in a prospect's length. But as we all know, length and great athleticism ultimately mean very little if not accompanied by NBA caliber skills and strong competitive drive. LaMello definitely has skills - I'd say elite skills for a PG. So he has that combination of freakish length and elite skills that a player like Okogie doesn't have. That's why I think it's reasonable to project Ball becoming a star. I question whether he has the competitive drive and love for the game to make it all come together at the NBA level. And he has yet to prove that he's a good enough perimeter shooter to be a great NBA player.

The reason I still believe that Okogie will become a really good NBA player is because he has a strong competitive drive and high octane motor to go with his freakish 7'0 wingspan and elite athleticism. His problem has been his skill set lagging well behind his length and athleticism. I think he can and will develop his skills and learn to play under control given his competitive drive and work ethic. He already showed improvement this season. This organization needs to remain patient with Josh. If he could only develop a reliable jump shot, but that may never come just as it never developed for Rubio.

Since you enjoyed Piatkowski I'll add another story he told at his South Dakota HS sports HOF induction. I have a good friend that was there for 2 of his family members Being inducted. So later in Piatkowski's NBA career he was playing some ball maybe in the offseason and he would get to the gym At least 2 hours before even getting in a game. Ty Lue who also went to Nebraska was like "Pike why are you getting here 2 hours early just to play some pickup ball?l" Piatkowski said that Lue of course was still in his 20's playing ball anywhere anytime no issues. So Piatkowski replied "Lue I'm 7 years older than you I'm in my 30's I HAVE to to al this just to be ready. Just wait you will see in a few years." He said Lue walked away shaking his head still not really comprehending. Piatkowski said near the end of his career he felt like he could still play and what made him realize it was time was when his agent would call teams about their interest in him they kept asking "Is he interested in coaching?" Lol

I was thinking if Halliburton even ended up being an Avery Bradly type player (assuming he actually stays healthy) that might be a pretty good selection. Obviously Halliburton is longer and more of a PG than Bradley was but Bradley is a guy that is good defensively despite being small and It's unknowns how guys really translate defensively sometimes. Maybe Bradley would have become a bit more than he was Offensively if he could have stayed healthy.

Again that's more of a high floor lower ceiling pick and that might not be a good thing to do in this draft but All things considered getting a player like that (Halliburton could certainly be better) in this draft might be a win. I think that kind of thinking could lead some teams into picking some guys higher than expected and have various guys drop.

Back to Halliburton. His freshman year here are 3 other guys I would consider perimeter types on the team. Wiggington, Tucker Horton and Marial Shayok. Horton got drafted and Wiggington and Shayok had nice rookie G-league seasons. It makes sense why Halliburton didn't score more points his freshman season. Interestingly he played more minutes than all those guys as a true freshman. I'll also add that former IOWA HS player and former Husker Michael Jacobson was on that squad the last 2 years as well. :)

Just watched some highlights of Halliburton. Yeah he looks pretty long. His shot is a little weird but seems to have a good release. I feel like him and Ball have some similarities as prospects in a way. I'm being drawn into this draft...lol

[Lipoli390]

Monster - Funny story about Eric P.

You're right about Ball and Halliburton being similar prospects in many ways. Both are long PGs with great passing and ballhandling skills. Halliburton has thus far proven to be the more efficient scorer. But Ball is an even better ballhandler and passer. He's also a bit taller, far more aggressive and more dynamic. I guess that's why Ball is generally regarded as having a higher upside than Halliburton.

This is a challenging draft for a lot of reasons. And it's especially tough for the Wolves because they're at a point where they need consider fit perhaps as much as overall talent/potential. If the Wolves were just starting to rebuild from scratch, I think I'd lean towards rolling the dice with LaMello or Wiseman or taking Toppin. But several years into their rebuild, with KAT and DLO in the fold on long-term max contracts, the Wolves have a more complicated decision matrix for this year's draft.

[Monster]

Monster - Funny story about Eric P.

You're right about Ball and Halliburton being similar prospects in many ways. Both are long PGs with great passing and ballhandling skills. Halliburton has thus far proven to be the more efficient scorer. But Ball is an even better ballhandler and passer. He's also a bit taller, far more aggressive and more dynamic. I guess that's why Ball is generally regarded as having a higher upside than Halliburton.

This is a challenging draft for a lot of reasons. And it's especially tough for the Wolves because they're at a point where they need consider fit perhaps as much as overall talent/potential. If the Wolves were just starting to rebuild from scratch, I think I'd lean towards rolling the dice with LaMello or Wiseman or taking Toppin. But several years into their rebuild, with KAT and DLO in the fold on long-term max contracts, the Wolves have a more complicated decision matrix for this year's draft.

Agreed. In some ways they might still need a 3rd really damn good player to so... In terms of guards they also have Beasley who's situation is complicated with RFA and who knows what the cap will look like for him getting a contract whenever that process can happen. Halliburton is ridiculous when it comes to efficient shooting. Oh and he is a legit PG and has the length of a SG maybe even SF? Watching those highlights I was thinking...this guy fits what the organization wants to do...of course so does Ball. I'm thinking when Prohm has good players they play a high scoring certainly not slow style of play right? I could even see a scenario where Russell, Beasley and Halliburton were all on the floor at the same time and that wouldn't be THAT small. Halliburton as part of the perimeter rotation would Offset some of the poor shooting of Okogie or Culver if neither progress and gives ball handling options for the coaching staff to use. Heck play Halliburton and J-Mac together. It does feel Homeristic to say this but add Nowell to that mix and Beasley and don't forget about Jake Layman...and maybe some other undrafted guy maybe even Martin and that's a lot of possibilities on the perimeter. Like we have discussed maybe later in the draft is where you go for a "big" type. I will say though that the Wolves don't really have a typical SF type though except maybe Jake Layman. They have guys that are more physical with some length like Okogie but nobody is really the profile for SF. Maybe they need to look for a guy like that with one of the later picks also. I know some of those typical SF guys might be PFs in this system but it feels like we could get a guy like that in the pipeline. COVID 19 is gonna make a hit to progress towards having an even more broad true minor league NBA system In the G-league but hopefully that still happens.

[TheFuture]

You don't need good perimeter shooters at all five starting positions to be successful in today's NBA. Right now, the Wolves have big-time shooters/scorers at three of the five starting positions in Towns, DLO and Beasley. One of those three, Towns, is a 40% 3-point shooter at the C or PF position. KAT is unique as the most offensively gifted big in the League. That gives the Wolves the luxury of pairing KAT with a defensive, shot-blocking big. That's what the Wolves should do and that's why I see Wiseman as a potentially good fit next to KAT.

Having said that, I agree with those who say that Rosas and Ryan have demonstrated that they have no intention of playing a defensive big next to KAT. I think they are stubbornly wrong-headed in that regard, but that's the reality from last season and I'm not counting on them changing. So unless Rosas and Flip change their approach, this franchise won't get much beyond the 7th or 8th seed because to build a championship caliber team around KAT requires pairing him with a defensive, shot-blocking center. I still think KAT can improve defensively, but at this point I only see him improving at the margins.

I agree that they've shown no inclination to, I just do think it is the wrong approach.

As you're one of few who are not against the two tower method, I ask you this:

Would you offer Indiana our top pick, the 33rd, and James Johnson for Myles Turner?

He would be absolutely perfect next to KAT.

Future - You and I have the same perspective on this. If I were Rosas, I'd do the deal you suggested. Turner is not he physical inside presence I'd ideally want and he's a subpar rebounder for his size and position. However, he's a bona fide shot-blocker who could significantly bolster our inside defense with his mobility and rim protection. And he's also the someone Rosas and company might be interested in because he has SF mobility and a decent shot with 3-point range. So I think you've put your finger on a potentially realistic deal as well as a good one for the Wolves.

Our top pick AND 33 for Turner (who I suggested earlier as an option) Plus having to pay him (even if you think his salary is reasonable) seems like too much. I value 33 in any draft but this one it might have even more value. It might be more of a crap shot but it may have some more chance of getting you a good player because this draft is so wonky. It's basically a low 1st round pick with a dirt cheap salary. The Wolves NEED to add players like that with their cap situation Heck James Johnson has some value in this deal as well especially to the Pacers who would Likely want a guy that can play. Our top pick and James Johnson the most I would give up for Turner. I'd take my chances of getting a Myles Turner level player with 2 draft picks and save a bunch of cap space the next few years in doing so.

FWIW thinking about picking Wiseman made me think the Wolves should feel some pressure to make some moves to be able to win some more games sooner than later so Towns doesn't decide to leave. I also don't think they should make moves scared of that scenario. If Towns wants out then extract a King's ransome and Build around whatever you have. That's too easy for me to say and also too easy to actually play out but that's how I see it.

Monster - You make a good point about the value of the 33rd pick. You also make a good point about Turner's contract and the Wolves' need to manage their cap space given the big salaries they have on the books in KAT, DLO, and probably Beasley. I actually think that our top pick plus James Johnson without including #33 would be a fair offer. A lot depends on who's available. If the Wolves are convinced that a franchise player (maybe Ball) is available when on the clock with their top pick, then they shouldn't trade that pick for Turner or anyone else. Similarly, if they're convinced they will get someone are good or better than Turner at #33, then they shouldn't offer that pick for Turner. But Turner is a proven NBA talent who would provide much-needed rim protection this team doesn't currently have. So Future's idea is tempting.

Think about it this way. The Wolves would be paying likely at least 10 million more a year for Turner than the 1st round pick. What kind of mid-level FA could you also sign with that money that you probably aren't getting if you add Turner for the season a year from now. Also worth considering is the salary cap may go down so that would make Turner's salary less reasonable. Where the cap lands is going to make a deal for Beasley REALLY interesting. How will Rosas navigate that? If Beasley is willing to bet on himself a 1 year deal with a player option might be his best bet. If I was the Wolves I think I would be open to that kind of move Assuming the price was low like ai would expect it to be. If Beasley plays well and opts out for a big deal and is worth it fine tell Glen to pay the Lux tax if you need to to keep him. It does seem like with a strange unprecedented time coming this front office has people that seem likely to actually have done the research into the numbers and what to do and actually implement what they know. Will they make the right Basketball decisions? Idk but I have some actual faith in their ability to make produce worthwhile analytical Projections about contract values etc. that hasn't been a strength of the organization although I think Flip did a better job on contracts he gave players than people tend to remember he did.

My thing with adding Turner or any big man is that are we going to get any better defensivley with Kat guarding the small ball PF. I mean look at the west who is Kat going to guard. Clippers: George, Lakers: LBJ, Thunder: Gallo, Utah: Bogdonvic. Rockets: Cov, Nuggets: Millsap, Mavs: Dorian Finny Smith. Wolves would do fine against the Blazers when Collins gets back or the Mavs playing JJJ at the 4. So Kat will be guarding perimeter players that can all shoot and most of them can put the ball on the ground blow by Kat possession after possession. Now you might say Kat will destroy on the other end but the problem is that teams can still put their big man on KAT, while putting their smaller PF on Turner. I think teams will be perfectly fine having the wolves have Turner post up possession after possession where the small guy can bang in the post and shots won't be coming to KAT and DLo. Teams will live with Turner trying to beat them.

In the end if we aren't adding Embiid, Jokic or Gobert (Gobert makes a gigantic difference on defense) I don't think it is right at all to add another big with our 1st round asset. In the end it is up to KAT to get better at defense if he doesn't the wolves cap out at a bottom tier playoff team.

I also want to say Im not opposed to playing 2 bigs at times, I actually think it is really smart but as our end game lineup game after game I think the wolves would see way to many negatives compared to positives.

My idea with Turner is based on him being arguably the best all around big man defender. Go look up his DPOY snuffs, advanced stats, highlights. He is the reason Indiana is a top defensive team; remember no Oladipo. He can also be respected to shoot from 3. The perfect fit with KAT. I can envision rolling out a twin tower lineup in today's nba with KAT and him, and turn the tables.

My ideal off-season is trading our top pick and JJ for him (#33 as well if necessary) and getting Nesmith or Bey at 16.

[TheFuture]

Onyeka Okongwu is a super solid prospect and a relatively "safe" pick for anyone needing frontcourt help in the top-10. I wish he had more upside offensively, though. That's likely why I have several others I'd take before him, but he reminds me of Tristan Thompson and Taj Gibson. That's nothing to sneeze at.

Do you take Wiseman or Okongwu?

[Monster]

Lip I just watched highlights of Onyeka Okongwu and did a little other research. Comparing him to John Collins Okongwu is clearly thicker stronger. He is listed at 245 and Collins was 225 coming out of college. Okongwu looks to be longer also in terms of wingspan. I doubt he will be shorter than Collins in terms of height. Upside? I didn't watch him play but like you pointed out he was a pretty good FT shooter at 72% and he did at least take a couple 3's last year. He took plenty of FTs so his percentage probably isn't a fluke. Having said all that watching highlights he doesn't really wow me. Do I like him? Sure. How much more do I like him than say Jalen Smith or Oturu or some other guys I haven't become aware of yet like Reed. I think I'd be more likely to take a chance on a perimeter player than Okongwu unless something whacky happens and nobody is left at the Wolves pick that sounds that exciting. That's my current take. =) Ok back to "work".

[bleedspeed177 [enjin:6603232]]

When does the league year-end?

All this talk of playing more games makes me wonder when we would even have a draft.

[TheFuture]

When does the league year-end?

All this talk of playing more games makes me wonder when we would even have a draft.

Supposedly next month.

I feel bad for any college athlete who intended to go pro next season. This is wild.

[TheFuture]

Lip I just watched highlights of Onyeka Okongwu and did a little other research. Comparing him to John Collins Okongwu is clearly thicker stronger. He is listed at 245 and Collins was 225 coming out of college. Okongwu looks to be longer also in terms of wingspan. I doubt he will be shorter than Collins in terms of height. Upside? I didn't watch him play but like you pointed out he was a pretty good FT shooter at 72% and he did at least take a couple 3's last year. He took plenty of FTs so his percentage probably isn't a fluke. Having said all that watching highlights he doesn't really wow me. Do I like him? Sure. How much more do I like him than say Jalen Smith or Oturu or some other guys I haven't become aware of yet like Reed. I think I'd be more likely to take a chance on a perimeter player than Okongwu unless something whacky happens and nobody is left at the Wolves pick that sounds that exciting. That's my current take. =) Ok back to "work".

I just don't get the idea of Okongwu in the top 5.

Like you said, rather go for Oturu at 16 for the same production.