Might as well talk draft....

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Monster
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Re: Might as well talk draft....

Post by Monster »

Camden0916 wrote:
SameOldNudityDrew wrote:
Camden wrote:Devin Vassell is unofficially 6'7 with a 6'10 wingspan. Sure, it'd be nice if he was even longer, but that's above average playing size for an NBA wing. That comment puzzled me.


That's not bad. But at that size he'll be competing with Beasley, Okogie, and Culver for minutes. If he were a few inches longer, he'd also be competing with Hernangomez and Jake Layman. Basically I just want the next Covington, and I think Vassell fits the mold, but is just a bit shorter, which is a bummer. Still, I really like Vassell.


6'7 with long arms is legit size for either wing position. But I guess what you're saying is you want a tweener that can play next to Towns down low occasionally but still produce as a wing too.

I guess we need to have a talk about Saddiq Bey...


It would be interesting to see someone put together a list of the big wings and how many of them will actually be playing as a wing or you would just basically be guarding them with a modern PF type anyway.
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Lipoli390
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Re: Might as well talk draft....

Post by Lipoli390 »

Camden wrote:
SameOldNudityDrew wrote:
Camden wrote:Devin Vassell is unofficially 6'7 with a 6'10 wingspan. Sure, it'd be nice if he was even longer, but that's above average playing size for an NBA wing. That comment puzzled me.


That's not bad. But at that size he'll be competing with Beasley, Okogie, and Culver for minutes. If he were a few inches longer, he'd also be competing with Hernangomez and Jake Layman. Basically I just want the next Covington, and I think Vassell fits the mold, but is just a bit shorter, which is a bummer. Still, I really like Vassell.


6'7 with long arms is legit size for either wing position. But I guess what you're saying is you want a tweener that can play next to Towns down low occasionally but still produce as a wing too.

I guess we need to have a talk about Saddiq Bey...


Saddiq Bey would be a nice pick at #16 in my view. He's 6'8 and reputed to have a 7'0 wingspan. That's optimal size for an NBA SF. But two things stand out when considering Bey for the Wolves #16 pick. First, he's an excellent defender. Second and most importantly, Bey is an elite 3-point shooter. He hit 45% of his threes as a sophomore last season and that was on a pretty substantial 5.6 attempts. He's also reputed to have a great motor. Assuming the Wolves re-sign Beasley as I think they will, the team will really need a defensive SF who can also hit threes. That's Saddiq Bey. I see him as the best 3&D prospect in the draft - even better than Vassell in that role, although Vassell has the higher overall upside. Negatives with Bey are his mediocre rebounding (4.7 per game) and his fairly unimpressive 2.9 free throw attempts. He's not a guy who's going to beat guys off the dribble or draw a lot of founds. And he's not going to be a difference maker on the boards. But I'm impressed enough by his positives and how well he fits a team need that I'd have him high on my list for our pick at #16.

The other guy I'd like at 16 is Patrick Williams. He's more of a high-risk/high-reward guy than Bey or Vassell. His numbers are decent in limited minutes as a freshman. But watching video of his play, my eye test tells me he has a really high upside and could become an allstar caliber wing. I have no doubt he'll be an excellent defender in the NBA. But I see the scoring potential as well. He's a very good free throw shooter, hitting 84% of his attempts. He also appears to be a really good passer. He looks like someone with a very high basketball IQ to go with high level athleticism and excellent size. And note that he's one of the youngest players in the draft.

Other guys I'd have in the mix at #16 are Josh Green, Nesmith, Kira Lewis Jr., and Jalen Smith.

Guys I'd have my eye on for our 2nd round pick are Tyrell Terry, Paul Reed, Tyler Bey, Pokusevski, Bomaro and Azubuike.

Right now, assuming we keep all three picks, my ideal draft would probably be:

Okongwu (lottery pick)
Williams or Saddiq Bey (#16)
Tyrell Terry (2nd round pick)
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Camden [enjin:6601484]
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Re: Might as well talk draft....

Post by Camden [enjin:6601484] »

Solid write-up, Lip. I'm willing to bet a couple beers that Saddiq Bey is off the board by 16, though.
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Lipoli390
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Re: Might as well talk draft....

Post by Lipoli390 »

Camden wrote:Solid write-up, Lip. I'm willing to bet a couple beers that Saddiq Bey is off the board by 16, though.


Cam - I wouldn't be surprised if Saddiq is gone before we're on the clock at #16. It's going to be hard for teams to pass on a guy who hit 45% of his threes on decent volume - and that's before you factor in his SF length and defensive chops. But most mocks have him around at #16. I think his lack of athleticism along with his poor steal and block stats will cause a number of teams to question how well his defense and perhaps even his shooting will translate to the next level. I hope so. I'm confident he'll be a really good three-point shooter and good defender in the NBA. 45% from behind the college arc on 5.5 attempts per game is super elite. And unlike Derrick Williams it's not like it was a sophomore fluke. Saddiq hit 37% of his threes as a freshman, which tells you he's a natural from behind the arc. He form looks fine and his length will allow him to get his shot off at the next level.

Another guy the Wolves should consider at #16 is Kira Lewis Jr. I was watching some more video of him earlier today. He's really impressive. I look at four things when evaluating draft prospects: (1) college production in key areas relative to the player's age, (2) physical attributes (length, speed, etc.), (3) skill set for his position; and (4) competitiveness/intensity/motor. He scores high on all four categories in my view.

1. College Production -- Kira put up very good to outstanding numbers across the spectrum, averaging 18.5 points, 5.2 assists, 1.8 steals and 4.8 rebounds. That rebounding stat is excellent for a PG. His 18.5 points were efficient as he hit 46% of his field goal attempts, 36.6% of his threes and 80% of his free throws. He averaged a decent 4.2 free throw attempts.

2. Physical Attributes -- He's listed as 6'3, which is solid length for a PG. But what stands out is his speed. While not vertically explosive, he's really fast with the ball and looks like a player who can get into the paint a lot at the next level. In that sense, he reminds me a bit of Tony Parker.

3. Skill Set -- This is where things get exciting. It's one thing to have blazing speed like Kira appears to have. But it's another thing when you can combine that speed with great ballhandling. Kira has a ball-on-a-string handle, which importantly makes him lightening fast WITH THE BALL. It gets even better, however, when you see that he excels at changing speed and direction. When you're really fast, but also adept at changing speed and direction, you can become an elite penetrating guard in the NBA. He also has excellent body control on his drives and a terrific array of moves and shots in the paint and at the rim. He has the ability to finish with either hand, hitting floaters and nifty reverse layups. He also has a really quick release on his three-point shot.

4. Competitiveness/Motor -- I don't have a good handle on this aspect of his character. But on video he looks like a guy with a high level motor. Averaging 1.8 steals and 4.8 rebounds as a 6'3 PG strongly suggests he has a high level motor.

I don't know if he'll be around at #16 either, but he's worth strong consideration along with Saddiq Bey and Patrick Williams.
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bleedspeed
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Re: Might as well talk draft....

Post by bleedspeed »

Kira Lewis Jr.sounds legit. Do you worry about him being on a losing team in college?

That got me thinking. How often do players from programs that have losing records in college make it in the NBA?
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SameOldNudityDrew
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Re: Might as well talk draft....

Post by SameOldNudityDrew »

bleedspeed177 wrote:Kira Lewis Jr.sounds legit. Do you worry about him being on a losing team in college?

That got me thinking. How often do players from programs that have losing records in college make it in the NBA?


Good question. Right off the bat I can think of Ben Simmons as a good NBA player from a bad college team, but I'd be curious what the stats suggest. And also, whether those stats show correlation or causation. Good players may tend to be on good teams not necessarily because they make those teams good, but because top prospects tend to go to college teams that are already good. So the depth of the rest of the team and quality of coaching may also explain why a player on a good team gets overvalued. Good question.

A related question might be about the quality of players coming from small teams. I'm thinking here of Ja Morant, Damian Lillard, and Kawhi.

Interesting story: I heard an interview once with Ja Morant's college coach on how he discovered him. Basically, he went to a gym where a bunch of good high school prospects were playing a showcase game for college scouts, but then he happened to stop by a random pickup game happening in a nearby gym and saw some unknown dude who wasn't invited to the showcase game just kicking everyone's ass in that game. That guy, the one who wasn't invited to the showcase game, was Ja Morant. Crazy. Can you imagine how awesome that would feel finding a diamond in the rough, totally overlooked by other people?

I already love Ja Morant. And I love him even more after hearing that story.
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TheFuture
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Re: Might as well talk draft....

Post by TheFuture »

lipoli390 wrote:
Camden wrote:Solid write-up, Lip. I'm willing to bet a couple beers that Saddiq Bey is off the board by 16, though.


Cam - I wouldn't be surprised if Saddiq is gone before we're on the clock at #16. It's going to be hard for teams to pass on a guy who hit 45% of his threes on decent volume - and that's before you factor in his SF length and defensive chops. But most mocks have him around at #16. I think his lack of athleticism along with his poor steal and block stats will cause a number of teams to question how well his defense and perhaps even his shooting will translate to the next level. I hope so. I'm confident he'll be a really good three-point shooter and good defender in the NBA. 45% from behind the college arc on 5.5 attempts per game is super elite. And unlike Derrick Williams it's not like it was a sophomore fluke. Saddiq hit 37% of his threes as a freshman, which tells you he's a natural from behind the arc. He form looks fine and his length will allow him to get his shot off at the next level.

Another guy the Wolves should consider at #16 is Kira Lewis Jr. I was watching some more video of him earlier today. He's really impressive. I look at four things when evaluating draft prospects: (1) college production in key areas relative to the player's age, (2) physical attributes (length, speed, etc.), (3) skill set for his position; and (4) competitiveness/intensity/motor. He scores high on all four categories in my view.

1. College Production -- Kira put up very good to outstanding numbers across the spectrum, averaging 18.5 points, 5.2 assists, 1.8 steals and 4.8 rebounds. That rebounding stat is excellent for a PG. His 18.5 points were efficient as he hit 46% of his field goal attempts, 36.6% of his threes and 80% of his free throws. He averaged a decent 4.2 free throw attempts.

2. Physical Attributes -- He's listed as 6'3, which is solid length for a PG. But what stands out is his speed. While not vertically explosive, he's really fast with the ball and looks like a player who can get into the paint a lot at the next level. In that sense, he reminds me a bit of Tony Parker.

3. Skill Set -- This is where things get exciting. It's one thing to have blazing speed like Kira appears to have. But it's another thing when you can combine that speed with great ballhandling. Kira has a ball-on-a-string handle, which importantly makes him lightening fast WITH THE BALL. It gets even better, however, when you see that he excels at changing speed and direction. When you're really fast, but also adept at changing speed and direction, you can become an elite penetrating guard in the NBA. He also has excellent body control on his drives and a terrific array of moves and shots in the paint and at the rim. He has the ability to finish with either hand, hitting floaters and nifty reverse layups. He also has a really quick release on his three-point shot.

4. Competitiveness/Motor -- I don't have a good handle on this aspect of his character. But on video he looks like a guy with a high level motor. Averaging 1.8 steals and 4.8 rebounds as a 6'3 PG strongly suggests he has a high level motor.

I don't know if he'll be around at #16 either, but he's worth strong consideration along with Saddiq Bey and Patrick Williams.


I really like Patrick Williams at 16 over Saddiq Bey, and more than Vassell top 8 (I lean Wiseman, Edwards, Deni, or trade out there)). Both are great prospects themselves, but I'm unsure I trust Bey's athleticism/defense holding up at the NBA level. As for Vassell, I think he is more suited at a sg/st role at 195 lbs. I trust Okogie and Culver to handle defending those type of players. We need a stronger wing player to defend the Kawhi'big 3, LeBron's, George's of the conference.

There isn't a lot to mention about his defensive potential. The potential is incredible there at the 3 or 4. With a high help defensive IQ and ability to dive into passing lanes.

I love his shot the most. He has a real compact form and picks his spots well with consistent form.

Then you see his passing ability.

He isn't the greatest athlete in terms of agility, and has plenty of work to do on both ends. But his body, first and second hops are great. Keep in mind that he won't be 19 until early August. I'd love to get him at 16 but I dont think he lasts that long.

The immediate skills are there for what the wolves should desire.

High end defender, passable shot, dribble drive, passing, adequate rebounder.

I'd like him as our big 3/small 4 going forward.
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bleedspeed
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Re: Might as well talk draft....

Post by bleedspeed »

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:

Interesting story: I heard an interview once with Ja Morant's college coach on how he discovered him. Basically, he went to a gym where a bunch of good high school prospects were playing a showcase game for college scouts, but then he happened to stop by a random pickup game happening in a nearby gym and saw some unknown dude who wasn't invited to the showcase game just kicking everyone's ass in that game. That guy, the one who wasn't invited to the showcase game, was Ja Morant. Crazy. Can you imagine how awesome that would feel finding a diamond in the rough, totally overlooked by other people?

I already love Ja Morant. And I love him even more after hearing that story.


Love those stories. Reminds of the article I recently read about Dennis Rodman.

I hope this Sean Pedulla ends up a Gopher.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6d_aAZIUWA
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Monster
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Re: Might as well talk draft....

Post by Monster »

bleedspeed177 wrote:
SameOldNudityDrew wrote:

Interesting story: I heard an interview once with Ja Morant's college coach on how he discovered him. Basically, he went to a gym where a bunch of good high school prospects were playing a showcase game for college scouts, but then he happened to stop by a random pickup game happening in a nearby gym and saw some unknown dude who wasn't invited to the showcase game just kicking everyone's ass in that game. That guy, the one who wasn't invited to the showcase game, was Ja Morant. Crazy. Can you imagine how awesome that would feel finding a diamond in the rough, totally overlooked by other people?

I already love Ja Morant. And I love him even more after hearing that story.


Love those stories. Reminds of the article I recently read about Dennis Rodman.

I hope this Sean Pedulla ends up a Gopher.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6d_aAZIUWA


If anyone hasn't read about Jamal Tinsley's story that's a pretty good one.
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Camden [enjin:6601484]
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Re: Might as well talk draft....

Post by Camden [enjin:6601484] »

Add Desmond Bane to the list of prospects I like a lot in this class.
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