Might as well talk draft....

[Lipoli390]

Here's an interesting report:

"On Friday, The San Francisco Chronicle's Connor Letourneau reported, citing league sources, that the Warriors are "higher on" Israel forward Deni Avdija than they are on Ball and 'possibly' Wiseman."

I can see LaMello Ball falling pretty far in the draft. If this report is true, I hope the Wolves' organization takes a long hard look at Deni. The Warriors are one of those really good NBA organizations when it comes to identifying and drafting talent - witness their decisions to draft Curry, Thompson and Green. Apparently, the Warriors staff have flown to Israel several times to watch Deni play. If they're that interested in Deni, then the Wolves should be too.

I smell smokescreen. Maybe I'm a cynic, but the "James Wiseman to Golden State" pick just seems perfect in all ways. I think the Warriors are just trying to get the scent off their trail.

Not sure I understand the strategy behind that unless they think it will discourage teams from jumping over them to do a deal with the Wolves for Wiseman. But that seems lame. By saying they're interested in Deni rather than Wiseman, Edwards or Ball they're certainly not enhancing the trade value of their pick.

The strategy is to play up guys you don't want so other teams do exactly what you are doing in taking a second look at Deni just because it's the Warriors. If the Warriors liked Deni they wouldn't say a peep about him. Keeping his value low is the play if they actually wanted him because it means they can get more back with him in a trade if they are trying to trade down to get him and someone else for 2. Adding more names to the top player list only lessens the value of their #2 pick because they are saying there are even more guys available that will be good. Why is someone trading up to 2 rather than 3/4/5 with teams that have more trade flexibility than the Warriors to get someone just as good as Wiseman for example?

I'm not following your logic. The Warriors have the second pick, so they don't need to steer other teams towards Deni unless they think the Wolves will be lured into taking him with the top pick so the Warriors can get Wiseman. Maybe David Kahn would have fallen for it, but not Rosas. I don't see how a false leak about preferring Deni would enhance the Warriors' trade leverage. If the Warriors negotiate a draft swap they will tell the other team who they want in exchange for the prospect the other team wants. Then each team will pick the player wanted by the other team.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Here's an interesting report:

"On Friday, The San Francisco Chronicle's Connor Letourneau reported, citing league sources, that the Warriors are "higher on" Israel forward Deni Avdija than they are on Ball and 'possibly' Wiseman."

I can see LaMello Ball falling pretty far in the draft. If this report is true, I hope the Wolves' organization takes a long hard look at Deni. The Warriors are one of those really good NBA organizations when it comes to identifying and drafting talent - witness their decisions to draft Curry, Thompson and Green. Apparently, the Warriors staff have flown to Israel several times to watch Deni play. If they're that interested in Deni, then the Wolves should be too.

I smell smokescreen. Maybe I'm a cynic, but the "James Wiseman to Golden State" pick just seems perfect in all ways. I think the Warriors are just trying to get the scent off their trail.

Not sure I understand the strategy behind that unless they think it will discourage teams from jumping over them to do a deal with the Wolves for Wiseman. But that seems lame. By saying they're interested in Deni rather than Wiseman, Edwards or Ball they're certainly not enhancing the trade value of their pick.

The strategy is to play up guys you don't want so other teams do exactly what you are doing in taking a second look at Deni just because it's the Warriors. If the Warriors liked Deni they wouldn't say a peep about him. Keeping his value low is the play if they actually wanted him because it means they can get more back with him in a trade if they are trying to trade down to get him and someone else for 2. Adding more names to the top player list only lessens the value of their #2 pick because they are saying there are even more guys available that will be good. Why is someone trading up to 2 rather than 3/4/5 with teams that have more trade flexibility than the Warriors to get someone just as good as Wiseman for example?

I'm not following your logic. The Warriors have the second pick, so they don't need to steer other teams towards Deni unless they think the Wolves will be lured into taking him with the top pick so the Warriors can get Wiseman. Maybe David Kahn would have fallen for it, but not Rosas. I don't see how a false leak about preferring Deni would enhance the Warriors' trade leverage. If the Warriors negotiate a draft swap they will tell the other team who they want in exchange for the prospect the other team wants. Then each team will pick the player wanted by the other team.

At 2 they can basically pick anyone they want so why are they leaking that they like anyone in particular? They can just take who they want at 2 and call it a day. Or they can leak that they like guys who weren't thought to be in serious consideration at 2 to drive up trade value and pick up some extra assets with a trade down to still get a guy they actually want.

[Lipoli390]

Here's an interesting report:

"On Friday, The San Francisco Chronicle's Connor Letourneau reported, citing league sources, that the Warriors are "higher on" Israel forward Deni Avdija than they are on Ball and 'possibly' Wiseman."

I can see LaMello Ball falling pretty far in the draft. If this report is true, I hope the Wolves' organization takes a long hard look at Deni. The Warriors are one of those really good NBA organizations when it comes to identifying and drafting talent - witness their decisions to draft Curry, Thompson and Green. Apparently, the Warriors staff have flown to Israel several times to watch Deni play. If they're that interested in Deni, then the Wolves should be too.

I smell smokescreen. Maybe I'm a cynic, but the "James Wiseman to Golden State" pick just seems perfect in all ways. I think the Warriors are just trying to get the scent off their trail.

Not sure I understand the strategy behind that unless they think it will discourage teams from jumping over them to do a deal with the Wolves for Wiseman. But that seems lame. By saying they're interested in Deni rather than Wiseman, Edwards or Ball they're certainly not enhancing the trade value of their pick.

The strategy is to play up guys you don't want so other teams do exactly what you are doing in taking a second look at Deni just because it's the Warriors. If the Warriors liked Deni they wouldn't say a peep about him. Keeping his value low is the play if they actually wanted him because it means they can get more back with him in a trade if they are trying to trade down to get him and someone else for 2. Adding more names to the top player list only lessens the value of their #2 pick because they are saying there are even more guys available that will be good. Why is someone trading up to 2 rather than 3/4/5 with teams that have more trade flexibility than the Warriors to get someone just as good as Wiseman for example?

I'm not following your logic. The Warriors have the second pick, so they don't need to steer other teams towards Deni unless they think the Wolves will be lured into taking him with the top pick so the Warriors can get Wiseman. Maybe David Kahn would have fallen for it, but not Rosas. I don't see how a false leak about preferring Deni would enhance the Warriors' trade leverage. If the Warriors negotiate a draft swap they will tell the other team who they want in exchange for the prospect the other team wants. Then each team will pick the player wanted by the other team.

At 2 they can basically pick anyone they want so why are they leaking that they like anyone in particular? They can just take who they want at 2 and call it a day. Or they can leak that they like guys who weren't thought to be in serious consideration at 2 to drive up trade value and pick up some extra assets with a trade down to still get a guy they actually want.

So they drive up Den's market value so they can take Deni at #2 for purposes of trading down and get more for him in the trade? Why would they do that? They can just take one of the top two guys in the top three that the Wolves don't draft. Leaking their preference for Deni over Ball isn't going to drive Deni's value up higher than Wiseman or Edwards. It probably won't drive his value up higher than Ball either because no team is going to vault Deni over Ball on their draft board simply because the Warriors prefer Deni. Honestly, even David Kahn wouldn't have done that.

I doubt the report was a clever ruse orchestrated by the Warriors front office. It's either something the source made up to get attention or an accurate account that the Warriors didn't mind getting out there. Or maybe it was really good reporting that leaked something the Warriors didn't want leaked. No matter what, it's not going to impact the draft. The Warriors will take the guy they want to keep, or they'll take a guy another team tells them to pick as part of a trade. If the Warriors want to trade down for Deni, they'll tell the other team to take Deni and the Warriors will take Edwards, Wiseman or Ball as directed by the other team.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

If you're Golden State, and you're thinking about moving the pick in some kind of trade -- maybe a trade down scenario, you leak that you like Deni Avdija to throw the scent off your real trail. Maybe you actually have your eyes on Devin Vassell or Onyeka Okongwu, but if that somehow gets out then the teams that will be selecting ahead of the Warriors after moving down will know who your target is and can essentially hold them for ransom or take them at their draft slot when perhaps they were also thinking of trading down. That's the game within the game when it comes to the draft. As Wolves fans we don't need to look too far to realize this. We saw Gersson Rosas get out-gamed last summer when he traded up for Darius Garland without knowing that the Cavaliers would take him. You never want other team's to know your true intentions. Don't tip your pitches or show your cards.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Here's an interesting report:

"On Friday, The San Francisco Chronicle's Connor Letourneau reported, citing league sources, that the Warriors are "higher on" Israel forward Deni Avdija than they are on Ball and 'possibly' Wiseman."

I can see LaMello Ball falling pretty far in the draft. If this report is true, I hope the Wolves' organization takes a long hard look at Deni. The Warriors are one of those really good NBA organizations when it comes to identifying and drafting talent - witness their decisions to draft Curry, Thompson and Green. Apparently, the Warriors staff have flown to Israel several times to watch Deni play. If they're that interested in Deni, then the Wolves should be too.

I smell smokescreen. Maybe I'm a cynic, but the "James Wiseman to Golden State" pick just seems perfect in all ways. I think the Warriors are just trying to get the scent off their trail.

Not sure I understand the strategy behind that unless they think it will discourage teams from jumping over them to do a deal with the Wolves for Wiseman. But that seems lame. By saying they're interested in Deni rather than Wiseman, Edwards or Ball they're certainly not enhancing the trade value of their pick.

The strategy is to play up guys you don't want so other teams do exactly what you are doing in taking a second look at Deni just because it's the Warriors. If the Warriors liked Deni they wouldn't say a peep about him. Keeping his value low is the play if they actually wanted him because it means they can get more back with him in a trade if they are trying to trade down to get him and someone else for 2. Adding more names to the top player list only lessens the value of their #2 pick because they are saying there are even more guys available that will be good. Why is someone trading up to 2 rather than 3/4/5 with teams that have more trade flexibility than the Warriors to get someone just as good as Wiseman for example?

I'm not following your logic. The Warriors have the second pick, so they don't need to steer other teams towards Deni unless they think the Wolves will be lured into taking him with the top pick so the Warriors can get Wiseman. Maybe David Kahn would have fallen for it, but not Rosas. I don't see how a false leak about preferring Deni would enhance the Warriors' trade leverage. If the Warriors negotiate a draft swap they will tell the other team who they want in exchange for the prospect the other team wants. Then each team will pick the player wanted by the other team.

At 2 they can basically pick anyone they want so why are they leaking that they like anyone in particular? They can just take who they want at 2 and call it a day. Or they can leak that they like guys who weren't thought to be in serious consideration at 2 to drive up trade value and pick up some extra assets with a trade down to still get a guy they actually want.

So they drive up Den's market value so they can take Deni at #2 for purposes of trading down and get more for him in the trade? Why would they do that? They can just take one of the top two guys in the top three that the Wolves don't draft. Leaking their preference for Deni over Ball isn't going to drive Deni's value up higher than Wiseman or Edwards. It probably won't drive his value up higher than Ball either because no team is going to vault Deni over Ball on their draft board simply because the Warriors prefer Deni. Honestly, even David Kahn wouldn't have done that.

I doubt the report was a clever ruse orchestrated by the Warriors front office. It's either something the source made up to get attention or an accurate account that the Warriors didn't mind getting out there. Or maybe it was really good reporting that leaked something the Warriors didn't want leaked. No matter what, it's not going to impact the draft. The Warriors will take the guy they want to keep, or they'll take a guy another team tells them to pick as part of a trade. If the Warriors want to trade down for Deni, they'll tell the other team to take Deni and the Warriors will take Edwards, Wiseman or Ball as directed by the other team.

You just aren't grasping what I'm saying at all. Just read everyone else's posts on this because you seem to be the only one here who is not understanding the gamesmanship at play.

[Lipoli390]

If you're Golden State, and you're thinking about moving the pick in some kind of trade -- maybe a trade down scenario, you leak that you like Deni Avdija to throw the scent off your real trail. Maybe you actually have your eyes on Devin Vassell or Onyeka Okongwu, but if that somehow gets out then the teams that will be selecting ahead of the Warriors after moving down will know who your target is and can essentially hold them for ransom or take them at their draft slot when perhaps they were also thinking of trading down. That's the game within the game when it comes to the draft. As Wolves fans we don't need to look too far to realize this. We saw Gersson Rosas get out-gamed last summer when he traded up for Darius Garland without knowing that the Cavaliers would take him. You never want other team's to know your true intentions. Don't tip your pitches or show your cards.

OK. Thanks, Cam. I get it. So the purpose is to prevent some team from intercepting the player you really want in a trade down with another team. It makes sense, but still seems pretty lame to me. You have to be a really dumb front office executive to take a player because of a public report that another team wants that player. I guess that's why I was having a hard time grasping the idea. It seems to me that the best thing to do is remain tight-lipped as an organization the way the Spurs do. If I were an NBA executive, I'd be looking for behind-the-scenes intelligence on what other teams are thinking and I wouldn't take any public reports seriously. At the end of the day, I wouldn't give much credence to any reports about another team's draft preferences unless the information behind the scenes came directly from a highly trustworthy source. And even then I'd be cautious about acting on it.

All of this simply underscores why, in my view, you don't trade up or down for a pick unless you're sure you'll get the guy you want. That's why I don't have much patience for what Rosas did last year trading up to #6 unless he was essentially indifferent between Garland and Culver. It's also why, if you're in a position to trade down, you need to take the player you want on your roster. You simply can't count on some other prospect you want still being available later in the draft unless the team you're doing the deal with picks immediately after you. All of this takes us back to the Wolves' #1 pick this year. If the Wolves are interested in trading down, they should take the player they want to keep and then field offers from other teams below them - unless of course, the Wolves intend to swap picks with the Warriors. If I were Rosas, my intelligence gathering would be focused on finding out, to the extent possible, the comparative trade value around the League of Edwards, Ball and Wiseman. Then, if I were on the fence between two or all three of them, I'd take the guy with the greatest market value. But I'm hoping the Wolves front office isn't on the fence when the draft rolls around. With all the information they'll have, they should be able to rank the three pretty definitively.

As for me, I've already excluded Ball and I'm down to Edwards versus Wiseman as the top pick for the Wolves. Right now, I'm leaning towards Wiseman. I'd take him on the assumption that we keep him, but I'd look to move him in a trade down for Okongwu or Vassell - depending on what other assets I could get.

[thedoper]

If you're Golden State, and you're thinking about moving the pick in some kind of trade -- maybe a trade down scenario, you leak that you like Deni Avdija to throw the scent off your real trail. Maybe you actually have your eyes on Devin Vassell or Onyeka Okongwu, but if that somehow gets out then the teams that will be selecting ahead of the Warriors after moving down will know who your target is and can essentially hold them for ransom or take them at their draft slot when perhaps they were also thinking of trading down. That's the game within the game when it comes to the draft. As Wolves fans we don't need to look too far to realize this. We saw Gersson Rosas get out-gamed last summer when he traded up for Darius Garland without knowing that the Cavaliers would take him. You never want other team's to know your true intentions. Don't tip your pitches or show your cards.

This is exactly it. Never show your hand, therefore almost all of these stories need to be treated as leaks, unless of course you're Mchale telling the whole world you want Randy Foye and then taking him.

[Lipoli390]

Bleacher Report's Jonathan Wasserman suggested the possibility of the Warriors making the following trade with the Knicks:

New York Knicks receive: No. 2
Golden State Warriors receive: No. 8, No. 27, Dallas Mavericks 2021 first-round pick, Frank Ntilikina

Wasserman went on to explain the trade as follows:

"Losing seasons and franchise instability have turned free agents away from the New York Knicks. Even with a new front office, the team can't feel confident in its ability to just sign the next star. Instead, the Knicks could make a play for one of the draft's potential stars, and if they can get LaMelo Ball without giving up Mitchell Robinson, RJ Barrett or the Knicks' own 2021 first-round pick, president of basketball operations Leon Rose would presumably sign off. Aside from Ball's flash and pace that the team has been missing, he'd give the Knicks a special playmaker to build around, regardless of how his scoring skills develop. For a 6'7" point guard, his elite passing will translate. Ball could reach an exciting level of upside if his body continues to improve, his finishing gets better and his shooting starts to go from streaky to consistent."

Interesting. If this deal is realistic for the Warriors, it's at least as realistic for the Wolves. The question is whether this would be a good deal for the Wolves. I guess the answer depends a lot on what you think of the prospects likely to be available at #8 and whether you believe the Wolves could pair the #27 pick with #17 to move up and land a guy like Saddiq Bey. If I were Rosas I'd consider the deal and take Vassell or Patrick Williams unless Okongwu somehow fell to #8.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Bleacher Report's Jonathan Wasserman suggested the possibility of the Warriors making the following trade with the Knicks:

New York Knicks receive: No. 2
Golden State Warriors receive: No. 8, No. 27, Dallas Mavericks 2021 first-round pick, Frank Ntilikina

Wasserman went on to explain the trade as follows:

"Losing seasons and franchise instability have turned free agents away from the New York Knicks. Even with a new front office, the team can't feel confident in its ability to just sign the next star. Instead, the Knicks could make a play for one of the draft's potential stars, and if they can get LaMelo Ball without giving up Mitchell Robinson, RJ Barrett or the Knicks' own 2021 first-round pick, president of basketball operations Leon Rose would presumably sign off. Aside from Ball's flash and pace that the team has been missing, he'd give the Knicks a special playmaker to build around, regardless of how his scoring skills develop. For a 6'7" point guard, his elite passing will translate. Ball could reach an exciting level of upside if his body continues to improve, his finishing gets better and his shooting starts to go from streaky to consistent."

Interesting. If this deal is realistic for the Warriors, it's at least as realistic for the Wolves. The question is whether this would be a good deal for the Wolves. I guess the answer depends a lot on what you think of the prospects likely to be available at #8 and whether you believe the Wolves could pair the #27 pick with #17 to move up and land a guy like Saddiq Bey. If I were Rosas I'd consider the deal and take Vassell or Patrick Williams unless Okongwu somehow fell to #8.

I don't really see a scenario where we can make this trade because there is no way we can afford to take Ball #1 and wait to see who drops to 8. Rosas hopefully learned from last year that you don't make a trade in the draft without absolutely knowing you are getting the guy you want. 8 is really far down to trade down. Who are you taking if Okongwu, Haliburton and Vassell all go in the 4-7 range. The Warriors I could see doing it because literally every pick they make is a luxury on that team and this gets them 2 rookies this year and another pick when they need to be adding depth to that expensive roster. We on the other hand absolutely need to land a star out of this draft.

[Lipoli390]

Bleacher Report's Jonathan Wasserman suggested the possibility of the Warriors making the following trade with the Knicks:

New York Knicks receive: No. 2
Golden State Warriors receive: No. 8, No. 27, Dallas Mavericks 2021 first-round pick, Frank Ntilikina

Wasserman went on to explain the trade as follows:

"Losing seasons and franchise instability have turned free agents away from the New York Knicks. Even with a new front office, the team can't feel confident in its ability to just sign the next star. Instead, the Knicks could make a play for one of the draft's potential stars, and if they can get LaMelo Ball without giving up Mitchell Robinson, RJ Barrett or the Knicks' own 2021 first-round pick, president of basketball operations Leon Rose would presumably sign off. Aside from Ball's flash and pace that the team has been missing, he'd give the Knicks a special playmaker to build around, regardless of how his scoring skills develop. For a 6'7" point guard, his elite passing will translate. Ball could reach an exciting level of upside if his body continues to improve, his finishing gets better and his shooting starts to go from streaky to consistent."

Interesting. If this deal is realistic for the Warriors, it's at least as realistic for the Wolves. The question is whether this would be a good deal for the Wolves. I guess the answer depends a lot on what you think of the prospects likely to be available at #8 and whether you believe the Wolves could pair the #27 pick with #17 to move up and land a guy like Saddiq Bey. If I were Rosas I'd consider the deal and take Vassell or Patrick Williams unless Okongwu somehow fell to #8.

I don't really see a scenario where we can make this trade because there is no way we can afford to take Ball #1 and wait to see who drops to 8. Rosas hopefully learned from last year that you don't make a trade in the draft without absolutely knowing you are getting the guy you want. 8 is really far down to trade down. Who are you taking if Okongwu, Haliburton and Vassell all go in the 4-7 range. The Warriors I could see doing it because literally every pick they make is a luxury on that team and this gets them 2 rookies this year and another pick when they need to be adding depth to that expensive roster. We on the other hand absolutely need to land a star out of this draft.

Kahns - I generally agree with you. I'm really high on Patrick Williams, so I have four players in mind I might really like at #8. But all four of those could conceivably be gone by the eighth pick. Assuming Ball, Edwards and Wiseman end up as the top three picks, I could see Okongwu, Haliburton, Vassell and Williams being taken 4-7, although I suspect that Killian Hayes, Deni or Toppin (if not all three) will likely be taken in the 4-7 range. But as I've said a number of times, I don't think you trade up or down unless you are absolutely certain you'll get the draft prospect you want. Nonetheless, it would be tempting to get back into next year's draft and I like the idea of packaging 27 with 17 to move up for a guy like Saddiq Bey, who probably won't last to #17.