Q12543 wrote:I'm kinda with LST on the Okogie issue....hard to argue with the results. If our defense starts to falter and we're losing games, then it becomes a different issue. In terms of development, Okogie doesn't need to play all 82 games at 20 minutes per for him to successfully develop this year. He's already made some nice strides and I expect he will eventually be called upon again. If literally anyone at PG/SG/SF get hurt, he's next man up.
(still would have loved to see him play, just hard for me to get angry at Thibs after a decisive win like that).
Yeah, exactly where I am. One thing I noticed last night that happened right in front of me, and was a little concerning (I know Lip is on the other end of the court from where I sat last night, but I wonder if he noticed also). Josh looked quite unhappy when he came in for the last 36 seconds...uncharacteristically totally disinterested on defense. He seems like such a great guy, but he clearly looked like he was pouting on the court at the end of the game.
I was also surprised at Tolliver's post-game comments where he seemed to be unhappy Thibs didn't talk with him about his DNP's. I'm kind of mixed on this, because a lot of me believes a coach doesn't have to pamper his millionaire players and worry about their feelings. But Tolliver and Okogie are by all accounts really good guys, and Thibs is notoriously bad at communication. It may have been helpful if Thibs had just taken a moment to sit Josh and Tolliver down and explain to them the potential implications of bringing in two guys who both deserve 30+ minutes at their expense. Not a big deal, but just one negative I noticed on what was largely a joyous night.
If you look at some old Okogie scouting reports, you will sometimes see things about his body language and demeanor when things aren't going so well for him.
While many of us may have some appreciation for an old-school style, the bottom line is that there is almost zero downside to communicating one on one with someone and being honest. Thibs just flat out sucks at this. He needs to go to one of these executive finishing schools where they put you through a 360-degree review and have you meet with a management coach, etc....bleh, probably too late for him.
crazy-canuck wrote:When tollivers comment hit social media, Jamal Crawford was liking the posts.
Communication is something thibs isn't known for, so shouldn't at least 1 of the ast coaches have a relationship with the players?
Great point, c-c. I would nominate Saunders, but in order for him to communicate to the players what Thibs is thinking, Thibs first has to communicate his intentions to Ryan! Probably not going to happen.
Interesting obsevation about Crawford "liking" Tolliver's posts. I don't want to make too big a deal out of Tolliver's comments because they were straighforward and not all that controversial. My only point is it wouldn't take much effort for Thibs to ensure a happier, more cohesive locker room.
Q12543 wrote:If you look at some old Okogie scouting reports, you will sometimes see things about his body language and demeanor when things aren't going so well for him.
While many of us may have some appreciation for an old-school style, the bottom line is that there is almost zero downside to communicating one on one with someone and being honest. Thibs just flat out sucks at this. He needs to go to one of these executive finishing schools where they put you through a 360-degree review and have you meet with a management coach, etc....bleh, probably too late for him.
All of Okogie's assistant coaches from college have spoken ridiculously high of him as a person and as a guy that's going to work hard be the same guy and even to try and lead etc. I'm not worried about him.
crazy-canuck wrote:When tollivers comment hit social media, Jamal Crawford was liking the posts.
Communication is something thibs isn't known for, so shouldn't at least 1 of the ast coaches have a relationship with the players?
Great point, c-c. I would nominate Saunders, but in order for him to communicate to the players what Thibs is thinking, Thibs first has to communicate his intentions to Ryan! Probably not going to happen.
Interesting obsevation about Crawford "liking" Tolliver's posts. I don't want to make too big a deal out of Tolliver's comments because they were straighforward and not all that controversial. My only point is it wouldn't take much effort for Thibs to ensure a happier, more cohesive locker room.
I would have liked to see Tolliver's comments in video form but it seems like he was asked a question and gave an honest answer to the question. If he is out of the rotation for a couple games and Thibs didn't sit him down and explain his thinking...yeah it would be good for him to do that but maybe not a huge deal. If Tolliver doesn't play for like 8-10 games or even 5 then that's more of a problem. It's worth noting that the Blazers put a big guy in Collins and Leonard there off the bench and rebounding was a problem for this team last game and the Blazers are a good rebounding team. There could easily be other teams that don't have guys like that off the bench where Thibs goes to Tolliver instead.
Crawford...signed with the Suns who dumped a guy in Shaq Harrison who looks like is doing some good things for the Bulls and Crawford is playing what 10mpg? I like Crawford but I don't really get what his expectations are at this point...or last season.
I'm not worried about Okogie. But I continue to worry about having head coach who doesn't even engage in basic communication with his players. When a guy like Tolliver complains about it, it's definitely an issue. Thibodeau is doing a better job coaching and the team chemistry is very positive right now. But things can turn sour pretty quickly. It doesn't matter how much money these guys make. Like any workplace or organization, how employees are treated by management makes a huge difference in what you get out of them. Leadership requires communication. Thibodeau fails miserably in that regard and that's not something that can be effectively delegated to assistants.
Q12543 wrote:If you look at some old Okogie scouting reports, you will sometimes see things about his body language and demeanor when things aren't going so well for him.
While many of us may have some appreciation for an old-school style, the bottom line is that there is almost zero downside to communicating one on one with someone and being honest. Thibs just flat out sucks at this. He needs to go to one of these executive finishing schools where they put you through a 360-degree review and have you meet with a management coach, etc....bleh, probably too late for him.
All of Okogie's assistant coaches from college have spoken ridiculously high of him as a person and as a guy that's going to work hard be the same guy and even to try and lead etc. I'm not worried about him.
All true, but there are two important factors in play here that Josh has never experienced before and may have an impact:
1)I'm fairly certain there has never been a time when Josh has been considered anything other than a "star" or when he wasn't getting significant playing time...heck, he averaged 31 MPG and 16.1 PPG as a freshman at GT, and
2)He has never played for Thibs.
I don't question Thibs' decision to not play Josh last night, but his sour attitude on the court at the end of the game was evident to people in my section. I think Josh is an outstanding young man too, but I hope the combination of not playing and not being told why he is not playing doesn't have a negative impact on him.
Q12543 wrote:If you look at some old Okogie scouting reports, you will sometimes see things about his body language and demeanor when things aren't going so well for him.
While many of us may have some appreciation for an old-school style, the bottom line is that there is almost zero downside to communicating one on one with someone and being honest. Thibs just flat out sucks at this. He needs to go to one of these executive finishing schools where they put you through a 360-degree review and have you meet with a management coach, etc....bleh, probably too late for him.
All of Okogie's assistant coaches from college have spoken ridiculously high of him as a person and as a guy that's going to work hard be the same guy and even to try and lead etc. I'm not worried about him.
All true, but there are two important factors in play here that Josh has never experienced before and may have an impact:
1)I'm fairly certain there has never been a time when Josh has been considered anything other than a "star" or when he wasn't getting significant playing time...heck, he averaged 31 MPG and 16.1 PPG as a freshman at GT, and
2)He has never played for Thibs.
I don't question Thibs' decision to not play Josh last night, but his sour attitude on the court at the end of the game was evident to people in my section. I think Josh is an outstanding young man too, but I hope the combination of not playing and not being told why he is not playing doesn't have a negative impact on him.
I also think okogie reads alot of what people say in the forums.
We got people calling him the next one, people calling him the second best player on the team, and people who are saying he should start ahead of wiggins. He probably started to believe the hype, i mean what 20 year old wouldnt. So, it's a letdown when he cant get on the floor.
Q12543 wrote:If you look at some old Okogie scouting reports, you will sometimes see things about his body language and demeanor when things aren't going so well for him.
While many of us may have some appreciation for an old-school style, the bottom line is that there is almost zero downside to communicating one on one with someone and being honest. Thibs just flat out sucks at this. He needs to go to one of these executive finishing schools where they put you through a 360-degree review and have you meet with a management coach, etc....bleh, probably too late for him.
All of Okogie's assistant coaches from college have spoken ridiculously high of him as a person and as a guy that's going to work hard be the same guy and even to try and lead etc. I'm not worried about him.
All true, but there are two important factors in play here that Josh has never experienced before and may have an impact:
1)I'm fairly certain there has never been a time when Josh has been considered anything other than a "star" or when he wasn't getting significant playing time...heck, he averaged 31 MPG and 16.1 PPG as a freshman at GT, and
2)He has never played for Thibs.
I don't question Thibs' decision to not play Josh last night, but his sour attitude on the court at the end of the game was evident to people in my section. I think Josh is an outstanding young man too, but I hope the combination of not playing and not being told why he is not playing doesn't have a negative impact on him.
I also think okogie reads alot of what people say in the forums.
We got people calling him the next one, people calling him the second best player on the team, and people who are saying he should start ahead of wiggins. He probably started to believe the hype, i mean what 20 year old wouldnt. So, it's a letdown when he cant get on the floor.
Okogie was at best a 3 star guy coming into college in the summer HS travel teams he was the glue guy that did all the other stuff while the other supposedly more talented guys scored. His parents didn't even care if he played basketball he had to do his chores first. He is the opposite of an entitled player. He wants to play great you want him to want to play. If we see this multiple times I'll start to worry.
