KAT

[Lipoli390]

FWIW from Jon K today.

"KAT isn't getting traded"

https://twitter.com/jonkrawczynski/status/997958471495581696?s=21

Can we please start a fire Doogie petition? I have never heard the guy cite a source in anything.

I get the Wolfson angst he should use some discretion (which he said he did about Jake Cave lol). Having said that FWIW Wolfson's tweets basically report basically nothing is reaching worrisome issues with Thibs and Towns and basically saying neither guy is going anywhere. Personally I'm out of these threads about Towns getting traded. It doesn't add up. For one thing if Glen had to be convinced to deal Rubio and they got a 1st round pick for him...my goodness what kind of haul would it take to actually move Towns and convince Glen to do it? I'm gonna go watch some draft videos now.

Jon is a terrific reporter and highly accurate. If I had to bet, I'd bet KAT doesn't get traded. Taylor had to be convinced to trade Rubio, so Glen it will probably take a lot to convince him to sign off trading KAT. But I trust my friend's source that KAT is being shopped. Thibodeau has totally shut the flow of information from the Wolves organization to the point where even a good reporter like Jon can be in the dark on what Thibodeau is doing. So he might not know. I'll note that Jon said KAT's not getting traded. He didn't say Thibs isn't shopping him. Nor has Jon said KAT's not unhappy with Thibs. Recall also that Jon reported front office tension with Thibs and the fact that Thibs doesn't connect or work well with others in the organization. So Doogie's not alone on that reporting.

The test for how bad things are with KAT will be whether he signs a max extension before next season. If he doesn't, then you know things are really bad between him and Thibodeau.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I had thrown out a very hypothetical trade idea not too long ago on here and I'm wondering what the consensus on the board would do.

Cleveland calls on draft night. They offer No. 8 overall (for clarity's sake, let's say draft rights to Mikal Bridges), 2020 first-round pick, Larry Nance Jr., Jordan Clarkson, and Cedi Osman for Jimmy Butler.

What's the board do? Accept or decline the Cavs best possible offer?

[Lipoli390]

I had thrown out a very hypothetical trade idea not too long ago on here and I'm wondering what the consensus on the board would do.

Cleveland calls on draft night. They offer No. 8 overall (for clarity's sake, let's say draft rights to Mikal Bridges), 2020 first-round pick, Larry Nance Jr., Jordan Clarkson, and Cedi Osman for Jimmy Butler.

What's the board do? Accept or decline the Cavs best possible offer?

I take the deal quickly before it's taking off the table.

[Lipoli390]

Simply cannot make moves based on what Jimmy wants, or to try and compliment Jimmy. His best days are behind him. I'd get what we can for him before next season. His value should still be high. In retrospect i think we tried to win too soon. I don't think the Butler trade was a good one for us in the long run. Would rather have a good coach, Dunn, Zach and to have continued the course we were on. You should make a move for a guy like Butler when you are close, we weren't close.

This thought has been in my head a lot lately, so I'm kind of right there with you, but getting Butler definitely helped us make the playoffs and somewhat get the ship heading in the right direction. We needed a playoff berth in the worst way. Could we have continued the developmental route and still made the playoffs? I think that's an interesting question that none of us can answer for sure, but it just feels like the cupboard isn't as full as it once was and yet we're still quite a bit off from really contending.

Would we rather have Butler, Towns, Wiggins, Jones, Patton, and post-season experience, or Towns, Wiggins, LaVine, Markkenen, Dunn, Jones, and a slightly better cap situation right now? Makes you think.

PS: We could just as easily fire Thibodeau and deal Butler (and others) to get back to that situation, so if the next regime decided they wanted to retool, they totally could in a heartbeat.

Great post, Cam. I think you did a great job of reflecting both sides of the equation. It's a close call for me because the playoff experience was such a treat for fans and great opportunity for KAT and Wiggins. Like you and Cool I've been wrestling with this issue in my mind the past couple weeks. I've landed where Cool is at in thinking the Wolves were premature in dealing for a Jimmy Butler. I had that thought on draft night last June, but quickly reconciled myself to the deal and how it could quickly elevate the team's play, which is precisely what happened. But I don't like the long-run trajectory of this team now. It would be one thing if Jimmy Butler were 26 years old, a history of durability, no knee issues and at least two full years left on his contract. But that's not the case. The Sixers and Celtics organizations got it right. Stay the course, drafting well and patiently developing your young players.

Yet, the problem with the Sixers/Celtics developmental model is that it doesn't work with Thibodeau as head coach or PBO. What happened with Kris Dunn illustrates the point. Even though Thibodeau drafted him, he didn't play him to the point where Dunn was pissed. That MIGHT make sense on a playoff contender. But it was absolutely ridiculous on 30-win team. Even this past season, Thibodeau did not give Tyus Jones minutes to match how well he played, even though Teague telling him to give Tyus Jones more minutes.

If I were Glen Taylor, I would have fired Thibodeau shortly after the season. And now I'd be exploring Butler deals like the one you suggested.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

I had thrown out a very hypothetical trade idea not too long ago on here and I'm wondering what the consensus on the board would do.

Cleveland calls on draft night. They offer No. 8 overall (for clarity's sake, let's say draft rights to Mikal Bridges), 2020 first-round pick, Larry Nance Jr., Jordan Clarkson, and Cedi Osman for Jimmy Butler.

What's the board do? Accept or decline the Cavs best possible offer?

I hang up the phone almost immediately. Every single role player you mentioned either isn't playing or sucks right now for the Cavs in the playoffs. So you are taking about Jimmy for #8 and scraps (a 2020 pick with Jimmy on that team would be like 28-32) which is not a good trade to me. Two draft trades I would consider. Jimmy, Cole and our first to the Mavs for Barnes, Smith Jr and their #5 pick. Jimmy to ATL for Bazemore and #3. Whether those deals are realistic or not, that's the kind of return I want for Jimmy or else I'm keeping him and having another winning season and playoff appearance.

[thedoper]

I'm still not hearing any legit alternatives about where we would be now without a Butler trade. Offering Lavine a max with the 9th or 10th pick? Yuck. How that is a more optimistic is silly.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

I'm still not hearing any legit alternatives about where we would be now without a Butler trade. Offering Lavine a max with the 9th or 10th pick? Yuck. How that is a more optimistic is silly.

9th or 10th is a stretch for me. This lineup without Jimmy and presumably no Taj because I don't see him joining this team without Jimmy is probably the worst defensive team in the league. I really don't see how a Dunn/Lavine/Wiggins/Markannen/KAT lineup would have been better than a bottom 7 team to me. They would have had to win every game scoring 130+ and that's just not sustainable.

[Brooklyn_Wolves [enjin:14608167]]

I'm still not hearing any legit alternatives about where we would be now without a Butler trade. Offering Lavine a max with the 9th or 10th pick? Yuck. How that is a more optimistic is silly.

how about you fucking draft Donovan Mitchell with that pick.? How's that for a future. But you need competent people in charge, like a GM with an actual vision beyond winning the next game.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Why can't we have nice things.

We deserve nice things, don't we?

[Coolbreeze44]

I'm still not hearing any legit alternatives about where we would be now without a Butler trade. Offering Lavine a max with the 9th or 10th pick? Yuck. How that is a more optimistic is silly.

how about you fucking draft Donovan Mitchell with that pick.? How's that for a future. But you need competent people in charge, like a GM with an actual vision beyond winning the next game.

This post brings down the hammer. Game, set, match.